Oral History Interview - Yashar Ishmailoglu
Object
Audio file
Object number
2010.131
Physical Description
An interview with Yashar Ishmailoglu, b. 1945 – has worked in Hackney since 1972, when he arrived as a political refugee.
Associated Organisation
Transport and General Workers' Union (Subject of)
School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS) (Subject of)
Hackney Community Action (Subject of)
Turkish Football Association (Subject of)
Alevi Cultural Centre (Subject of)
School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS) (Subject of)
Hackney Community Action (Subject of)
Turkish Football Association (Subject of)
Alevi Cultural Centre (Subject of)
Associated Person
Ishmailoglu, Yashar ( ) (Subject of)
Goldstone, Rebecca (Created by)
Blakelock, Keith (PC) (Subject of)
Goldstone, Rebecca (Created by)
Blakelock, Keith (PC) (Subject of)
Associated Place
Material
Digital file (.wav)
Digital file (.mp3)
DVD
Credit line
Photograph - copyright Arnau Oriel
On display?
No
Inscription
Interview summary:
[00:00:04] Reads his poem inspired by first experience of Ridley Road market (Oct 1972) with his Turkish wife, as newly arrived political refugees. [00:03:43] Explains his books of poetry.
[00:04:34] Introduces himself: Cyprus village illiterate childhood till age 11 when he ran away to grandma in city of Limassol. Child custody between grandma and father, stayed with grandma. Completed Turkish Cypriot High School - poetry writing, oil painting, wanted to be a medical doctor. After 2 years reunited with father. Still close.
[00:07:42] War between Greece and Cyprus: Became a Mujahideen fighter – “A Turkish fighter against the Greeks”. 13th Feb 1964 took part in decisive action that stopped the war. [00:08:16] 8th Aug 1967 deserted helped by former Greek enemies.
[00:09:05] Went to Turkey. Tried to study medicine but traumatized by war memories. Studied BA in Politics/ Political Sciences at Ankara University.
[00:09:43] Change from Right Wing to Marxist Leninist: from army officer to student in era of global left-wing action 1967-68… [00:10:16] Turkish students anti USA’s 6th fleet in Mediterranean, anti-Vietnam... [00:10:36] Confused about political direction and identity, he chooses to be Marxist Leninist.
[00:11:11] Romance with married Kurdish woman, wife of Turkish Air Force pilot (1968): Military regime in Turkey. Joins underground leftwing - fights police and army. [00:11:49] Flees with Kurdish lover, they marry. [00:12:03] Caught: While political prisoner completes BA Degree 1971.
[00:12:34] November 1971, released: 1st Jan 1972 comes to UK to study MA then teach in Turkey. [00:12:55] First impressions: Despite degree English studies, can’t understand immigration officer’s Scottish accent. In snowy streets, losing way back to Wood Green digs. [00:15:50] Studies Cambridge Certificate of English instead of LSE.
[00:17:18] Wife comes to join him. First job: Garment trade presser in Stoke Newington Rd. £4.00 month rent. £6.00 wage not enough. Friend tells of Ridley Rd unsellable fruit & veg dumped after 4pm (hence poem)… [00:19:15] Good story – experience of being laid off without notice leads to cleaner job at Metal Box factory, and promotion to supervise 60 cleaning crew – by 3 years TGWU shop steward representing 600 workers. Led two strikes. [00:24:28] Good story of UK energy crises and 3-day week. Salary £26 with double shift.
[00:25:30] Does MS at SOAS. Left Metal Box. Job as waiter in Turkish restaurant in Sultan’s Delight, Upper St, one of only two Turkish Restaurants doing donar Kebabs – (Sultan Ahmed Essex Rd). As barman/waiter met MPs, writers, actors, intellectuals as patrons.
[00:31:50] Completed MS degree. Got job at Ankara University. Wife refuses to return to Turkey, they stay in UK. [00:32:12] Good story how Hackney council contacts suggest a job with Hackney Council. 1976 becomes ‘Assistant Homeless Person Officer’ – based in old Housing Dept, where Museum is now. By one year managing 200 short-stay properties. Trained ‘Institute of Housing 1 & 2. Had to meet secret quotas of Whites and BOEMs housed – eg. “only 5 Turkish speaking families will have offers”. But first year housed 25-30, called into manager and told off. [00:34:16] Becomes Islington Council Assistant Race Relations Advisor.
[00:35:15] Also from 1976, community activist: Becomes General Secretary of Hackney Community Action – representing 800 organisations Black, Turkish, Asian, Greek… on funding panel in Hackney (Local authority & DOE grants).
[00:36:28] Good explanation of pride in his Housing Manager/activist work in Dalston: Shoreditch to Stamford hill, very poor and derelict. 400 Turkish-speaking Cypriot owned small garment factories along Kingsland Rd/High Street – “There was no toilet facilities, very poor sanitation… no Trade Union” Started campaign for workers better pay, training and conditions. And campaign to allow women to sew at home… Landmark turning point by him and fellow activists on behalf of Hackney workers from many backgrounds – regional & national impact.
[00:43:14] 1976, he’s one of only four Turkish speaking council officers in the whole of UK: started a language campaign on behalf of Kurdish immigrants – previously 15,000+ Turkish Cypriot and Greek immigrants had arrived as war refugees. [00:44:30] Good explanation of campaign for councils to employ ‘mother-tongue’ workers to support new communities. Now 3,000+ Turkish and Kurdish-speaking local authority employees at all levels… “I think I am one of these unknown heroes that have helped my community develop…”
[00:46: 03] Good explanation of how and why most of UK’s Turkish and Kurdish-speaking refugees came to Hackney: “Because the Turkish Cypriots were in Hackney… many people came to work in the garment trade” [00:46:43] Good explanation of meeting needs for settlement: schooling, social security, housing, domestic violence, funeral customs, taking pork out of ‘meals on wheels’ for Muslims… [00:49:12] Good explanation how ready garment factory work created ghetto community – not integrated or English-speaking. So new campaign: Within community centres encouraged voters and councilors. [00:50:49] Good explanation how collapse of UK garment trade, redundancies and cuts add to need for education and training work in mainstream job market – instead of traditional businesses. “So that ghetto is broken now”
[00:52:13] Good story of creation of Hackney Halkevi (Kurdish & Turkish-speaking Community) Centre: good explanation of influx of thousands of Kurdish refugees fleeing Turkish military coups of 80s – doctors, lawyers, left-wing activists, teachers, union people… [00:53:00] Good explanation of settlement as cultural communities with recognized separate identities.
[00:58:30] Good story of his first encounters of with Hackney’s Black population, his own communities’ attitudes towards Black people, and Hackney’s race attitudes in general: People would say don’t go down there, there’s plenty Arab. In Turkish Arab don’t means not Arabs from Egypt and etc. But Arab means Black” [01:00:43] Good explanation of why he does not accept race barriers in his work. “You got the same housing problem. You got the same discrimination…”
[01:03:49] Good explanation of the Turkish Football Association: How it fosters London’s Black and ethnic minority cohesion by ruling that every club is licensed to have maximum of four Black players (because Black players were/are better than Turkish players). This is known as Yashar’s rule.
[01:05:52] Explanation of Hackney Race Equality Council campaigns he worked on – schools, schools meals…
[01:06:44] Good explanation of view that Hackney Black people stand up for rights, since the 80s: killing of PC Blakelock, and riots… “I realize that these communities is not going to be defeated” [01:07:23] Now represented in Hackney Council’s workforce in every service.
[01:07:49] Good explanation of view that his campaigns only succeeded by uniting across race and cultural lines, to work together.
[01:11:31] Good story of Hackney’s Kebab restaurants: Their importance and role in the Turkish and Kurdish-speaking community - “We got about 400 in Hackney alone”. Good detailed explanation of background, how restaurants grew to this number, regulations that had to be brought in, and what this meant to settlement of family and community “It became an employment opportunity for those who lost (jobs) in the garment trade”…
[01:23:05] Good explanation of view of latest changes along Kingsland High street: Ridley Road more organized, well managed. Overground at Dalston Junction, fantastic. “When I see all the developments and improvements… I’m happier than yesterday”
[01:25:36] Good detailed explanation of Allevi Cultural Centre: How it was created, why, what it does as a centre and out in the community...
[00:00:04] Reads his poem inspired by first experience of Ridley Road market (Oct 1972) with his Turkish wife, as newly arrived political refugees. [00:03:43] Explains his books of poetry.
[00:04:34] Introduces himself: Cyprus village illiterate childhood till age 11 when he ran away to grandma in city of Limassol. Child custody between grandma and father, stayed with grandma. Completed Turkish Cypriot High School - poetry writing, oil painting, wanted to be a medical doctor. After 2 years reunited with father. Still close.
[00:07:42] War between Greece and Cyprus: Became a Mujahideen fighter – “A Turkish fighter against the Greeks”. 13th Feb 1964 took part in decisive action that stopped the war. [00:08:16] 8th Aug 1967 deserted helped by former Greek enemies.
[00:09:05] Went to Turkey. Tried to study medicine but traumatized by war memories. Studied BA in Politics/ Political Sciences at Ankara University.
[00:09:43] Change from Right Wing to Marxist Leninist: from army officer to student in era of global left-wing action 1967-68… [00:10:16] Turkish students anti USA’s 6th fleet in Mediterranean, anti-Vietnam... [00:10:36] Confused about political direction and identity, he chooses to be Marxist Leninist.
[00:11:11] Romance with married Kurdish woman, wife of Turkish Air Force pilot (1968): Military regime in Turkey. Joins underground leftwing - fights police and army. [00:11:49] Flees with Kurdish lover, they marry. [00:12:03] Caught: While political prisoner completes BA Degree 1971.
[00:12:34] November 1971, released: 1st Jan 1972 comes to UK to study MA then teach in Turkey. [00:12:55] First impressions: Despite degree English studies, can’t understand immigration officer’s Scottish accent. In snowy streets, losing way back to Wood Green digs. [00:15:50] Studies Cambridge Certificate of English instead of LSE.
[00:17:18] Wife comes to join him. First job: Garment trade presser in Stoke Newington Rd. £4.00 month rent. £6.00 wage not enough. Friend tells of Ridley Rd unsellable fruit & veg dumped after 4pm (hence poem)… [00:19:15] Good story – experience of being laid off without notice leads to cleaner job at Metal Box factory, and promotion to supervise 60 cleaning crew – by 3 years TGWU shop steward representing 600 workers. Led two strikes. [00:24:28] Good story of UK energy crises and 3-day week. Salary £26 with double shift.
[00:25:30] Does MS at SOAS. Left Metal Box. Job as waiter in Turkish restaurant in Sultan’s Delight, Upper St, one of only two Turkish Restaurants doing donar Kebabs – (Sultan Ahmed Essex Rd). As barman/waiter met MPs, writers, actors, intellectuals as patrons.
[00:31:50] Completed MS degree. Got job at Ankara University. Wife refuses to return to Turkey, they stay in UK. [00:32:12] Good story how Hackney council contacts suggest a job with Hackney Council. 1976 becomes ‘Assistant Homeless Person Officer’ – based in old Housing Dept, where Museum is now. By one year managing 200 short-stay properties. Trained ‘Institute of Housing 1 & 2. Had to meet secret quotas of Whites and BOEMs housed – eg. “only 5 Turkish speaking families will have offers”. But first year housed 25-30, called into manager and told off. [00:34:16] Becomes Islington Council Assistant Race Relations Advisor.
[00:35:15] Also from 1976, community activist: Becomes General Secretary of Hackney Community Action – representing 800 organisations Black, Turkish, Asian, Greek… on funding panel in Hackney (Local authority & DOE grants).
[00:36:28] Good explanation of pride in his Housing Manager/activist work in Dalston: Shoreditch to Stamford hill, very poor and derelict. 400 Turkish-speaking Cypriot owned small garment factories along Kingsland Rd/High Street – “There was no toilet facilities, very poor sanitation… no Trade Union” Started campaign for workers better pay, training and conditions. And campaign to allow women to sew at home… Landmark turning point by him and fellow activists on behalf of Hackney workers from many backgrounds – regional & national impact.
[00:43:14] 1976, he’s one of only four Turkish speaking council officers in the whole of UK: started a language campaign on behalf of Kurdish immigrants – previously 15,000+ Turkish Cypriot and Greek immigrants had arrived as war refugees. [00:44:30] Good explanation of campaign for councils to employ ‘mother-tongue’ workers to support new communities. Now 3,000+ Turkish and Kurdish-speaking local authority employees at all levels… “I think I am one of these unknown heroes that have helped my community develop…”
[00:46: 03] Good explanation of how and why most of UK’s Turkish and Kurdish-speaking refugees came to Hackney: “Because the Turkish Cypriots were in Hackney… many people came to work in the garment trade” [00:46:43] Good explanation of meeting needs for settlement: schooling, social security, housing, domestic violence, funeral customs, taking pork out of ‘meals on wheels’ for Muslims… [00:49:12] Good explanation how ready garment factory work created ghetto community – not integrated or English-speaking. So new campaign: Within community centres encouraged voters and councilors. [00:50:49] Good explanation how collapse of UK garment trade, redundancies and cuts add to need for education and training work in mainstream job market – instead of traditional businesses. “So that ghetto is broken now”
[00:52:13] Good story of creation of Hackney Halkevi (Kurdish & Turkish-speaking Community) Centre: good explanation of influx of thousands of Kurdish refugees fleeing Turkish military coups of 80s – doctors, lawyers, left-wing activists, teachers, union people… [00:53:00] Good explanation of settlement as cultural communities with recognized separate identities.
[00:58:30] Good story of his first encounters of with Hackney’s Black population, his own communities’ attitudes towards Black people, and Hackney’s race attitudes in general: People would say don’t go down there, there’s plenty Arab. In Turkish Arab don’t means not Arabs from Egypt and etc. But Arab means Black” [01:00:43] Good explanation of why he does not accept race barriers in his work. “You got the same housing problem. You got the same discrimination…”
[01:03:49] Good explanation of the Turkish Football Association: How it fosters London’s Black and ethnic minority cohesion by ruling that every club is licensed to have maximum of four Black players (because Black players were/are better than Turkish players). This is known as Yashar’s rule.
[01:05:52] Explanation of Hackney Race Equality Council campaigns he worked on – schools, schools meals…
[01:06:44] Good explanation of view that Hackney Black people stand up for rights, since the 80s: killing of PC Blakelock, and riots… “I realize that these communities is not going to be defeated” [01:07:23] Now represented in Hackney Council’s workforce in every service.
[01:07:49] Good explanation of view that his campaigns only succeeded by uniting across race and cultural lines, to work together.
[01:11:31] Good story of Hackney’s Kebab restaurants: Their importance and role in the Turkish and Kurdish-speaking community - “We got about 400 in Hackney alone”. Good detailed explanation of background, how restaurants grew to this number, regulations that had to be brought in, and what this meant to settlement of family and community “It became an employment opportunity for those who lost (jobs) in the garment trade”…
[01:23:05] Good explanation of view of latest changes along Kingsland High street: Ridley Road more organized, well managed. Overground at Dalston Junction, fantastic. “When I see all the developments and improvements… I’m happier than yesterday”
[01:25:36] Good detailed explanation of Allevi Cultural Centre: How it was created, why, what it does as a centre and out in the community...