Oral History Interview - Sonia Shoude
Object
Audio file
Production date
10/08/1998
Object number
2016.29
Physical Description
Audio recording of an oral history interview with Sonia Shoude, in which she discusses her Jamaican roots.
Material
Digital file (.mp3)
On display?
No
Inscription
INTERVIEW WITH SONIA SHOUDE
Sonia (SS). My name is Sonia, and I live in Stamford Hill. I was born in England, in Buckinghamshire. However I went to Jamaica when I was about seven and lived there for about 15 years. I consider myself to be both English and Jamaican. When it comes to paperwork, I feel extremely British, but when it comes to roots and values I feel really Jamaican.
Most of my outlook on life and most of my personal value system — the do's and don'ts — that I tell my family is not acceptable for us. Things like how you see yourself basically. From a roots point of view I feel totally Caribbean. I don't feel British even though I was born here.
Q. How much mixing?
SS. I attend church which is predominantly black and Pentecostal. As black people we like a lot of excitement in our worship. I don't think white people can handle that on a Sunday. There are things that you find personally as you live from day to day, and some of them become more acceptable with the and change of time. I don't mean those things that are below a reasonable standard and which may be unacceptable or below a certain level. I'm talking life and how one sees life, about values and about going after those things that you want, getting it and making yourself a better person basically.
I've never had the privilege of going on school trips, because my parents though that sending me off with teachers, to a place some distance away was dangerous, and that something may happen and I would not be in reach, and as far as I was concerned it was just a school trip, and I saw it from a teenagers point of view. But today, with my own children I personally would allow them to go on a school trip depending on far it is and where it is. I'm looking at the aspect of the element of trust, the exposure they get, which I as a parent in the home one would not be able to give, no matter how hard one tries and no matter how long they live with me.
Q. You did spend a lot of time in Jamaica, what separated you from other islanders?
SS. I can select one thing and start on that, and possibly end on that. That is the education system. In my time — I was trained as a teacher as well, so I have an idea of what a curriculum might ask for from budding generations coming through the system in their given age groups — I recognise that all children back home were more enlightened about basic things from a very early age. This is my own personal observation. In this country, I don't think that this is the case. For example, recently they have been debated about taking away calculators from children of a certain age that they should learn to do basic arithmetic without the aid of a calculator. That is nothing new to us. In my time when we did exams I couldn't use a calculator. You had to know the formula, whereas now, in this country, they provide the formula for you. When it comes to course work, six percent of the examination is coursework which you can get help with outside of the classrooms. 40% is what you actually sit down and prove to the examiners that you can do on your own. At home, there is no aid in terms of being given formulas, and although coursework is undertaken, it is not given so much to things you do outside the examination itself. That will tell exactly, your cognitive level, just how much you can do. So, when we turn out children into the society, who say that they have completed certain examinations, then you know they are ready for the world of work. Here, in England, when they are turned out from school, they are still not ready for the world of work because they cannot spell properly. You are talking about people who have completed high school at the secondary and tertiary levels and they are still not ready.
Q. More self-confidence because of your Caribbean experience?
SS. I don't know whether I can compare it because it depends on the parentage. Not so much as where you are from. It depends on the values that your parents instill in you. They teach you what you know, as well as the wider society. If we were totally British, and never went out of the country at all then I would learn the values that my parents had to give to me, and that would be all I would know. So, you do have confident people who, in my estimation should know better. I have learnt to be self-reliant, because there are situations where I had to rely on myself to succeed, sometimes one fails, but you try until you succeed. In this country if you fail, you have different options, you don't need to continue to persevere. That is a very important word. I am used to persevering.
Q. Work?
SS. Because I'm a mother now, that makes it slightly harder. That's a very important factor I believe that I have the necessary skills for work. What I have found in this country is, and what they are asking for is years and experience. Now that may be my downfall, if I'm looking for something outside my training, which is teaching. Because I have not been working in this country for 2 — 3 years in an accounting firm, which is what I do on the side, that would give another person the preference over me. They would prefer to take someone else who has been in that line of work for longer than a year, as opposed to somebody who is qualified. That is my observation.
I didn't find it easy at all to get work in this country. References and experiences had to relate to this country. Those jobs, which I have had in the past, unfortunately I felt stagnant. I knew that there was a lot more that I could offer to that organisation. Because of the level I had gone in at, which is a lower level than I can perform because I cannot give a reference from another company in this country. Now, if I was to give a reference from back home it would be different and it would have easy. So I didn't feel that possibilities were opened to me. I remember trying to get a job, I told them all I could do, my status and everything else they needed to know about me and what I could offer to the organisation, and everything was fine until we got to the ethnic origin section. Much to my surprise they never phoned me back. I wouldn't like to think it was race, but I didn't see any other reason, because everything was alright up to that point.
Q. Accepted as part of the society?
SS. I don't think that we are totally accepted. I don't think that we are part of the society in the full sense of the word. Or that we are a piece of the puzzle that fits in so easily and smoothly that you didn't even know it was missing. I think we a 'different' and even though some of our people have come into the system and Are doing reasonably well, I still feel that there is a hitch in the smooth running of how it ought to be. This can be because of many things, but on a very personal level, I don’t feel very comfortable, for what it’s worth.
Q. Black consciousness?
SS. I'm not too sure what that is geared towards, if I am going by what the name implies which is if as black people, we are conscious of what we are worth, but I see everyone as individuals with a life and abilities and opportunities which should be there for anyone to take regardless of colour, class, ethnic origins etc.
Q. Education and authority figures?
SS. I think there are people who are put there, and whatever they are teaching I am understanding and if I'm not understanding I like the way they respond to me, to have something explained again. I've never had a problem in the educational system.
Q. Most important achievement of Caribbean in recent days?
SS. I can be very recent — that's football. Although I am not a football fan, I am really very proud of Jamaica, because there is a lot of talent on the island. We just need a push; an opening and we can turn an organisation around, so that it's second to none.
Q. Hopes for the future?
SS.. My thoughts are not centered on my children to give them what I never had, and I'm not talking about money here, but the values that I was not given a chance to be taught. I would like to spend time doing that, and if I succeed I will be the happiest woman alive. With a reasonable concept of self you can do anything and go anywhere. I'm not talking about not mixing with the rest of the crowd, irrespective of where the crowd comes from, or whether it's white or not. But to have the ability to take part in things only when and if they are of a certain standard. My fears are whether I'm doing the teaching to my children in the right way, so that it is in their bloodstream, and, so that when they are out they make the right choices. And if they should make the wrong choice, that they will know how to deal with it and if they don't and they come to me, that I should know how to deal with it to make them feel stronger, so that they want to press on.
Sonia (SS). My name is Sonia, and I live in Stamford Hill. I was born in England, in Buckinghamshire. However I went to Jamaica when I was about seven and lived there for about 15 years. I consider myself to be both English and Jamaican. When it comes to paperwork, I feel extremely British, but when it comes to roots and values I feel really Jamaican.
Most of my outlook on life and most of my personal value system — the do's and don'ts — that I tell my family is not acceptable for us. Things like how you see yourself basically. From a roots point of view I feel totally Caribbean. I don't feel British even though I was born here.
Q. How much mixing?
SS. I attend church which is predominantly black and Pentecostal. As black people we like a lot of excitement in our worship. I don't think white people can handle that on a Sunday. There are things that you find personally as you live from day to day, and some of them become more acceptable with the and change of time. I don't mean those things that are below a reasonable standard and which may be unacceptable or below a certain level. I'm talking life and how one sees life, about values and about going after those things that you want, getting it and making yourself a better person basically.
I've never had the privilege of going on school trips, because my parents though that sending me off with teachers, to a place some distance away was dangerous, and that something may happen and I would not be in reach, and as far as I was concerned it was just a school trip, and I saw it from a teenagers point of view. But today, with my own children I personally would allow them to go on a school trip depending on far it is and where it is. I'm looking at the aspect of the element of trust, the exposure they get, which I as a parent in the home one would not be able to give, no matter how hard one tries and no matter how long they live with me.
Q. You did spend a lot of time in Jamaica, what separated you from other islanders?
SS. I can select one thing and start on that, and possibly end on that. That is the education system. In my time — I was trained as a teacher as well, so I have an idea of what a curriculum might ask for from budding generations coming through the system in their given age groups — I recognise that all children back home were more enlightened about basic things from a very early age. This is my own personal observation. In this country, I don't think that this is the case. For example, recently they have been debated about taking away calculators from children of a certain age that they should learn to do basic arithmetic without the aid of a calculator. That is nothing new to us. In my time when we did exams I couldn't use a calculator. You had to know the formula, whereas now, in this country, they provide the formula for you. When it comes to course work, six percent of the examination is coursework which you can get help with outside of the classrooms. 40% is what you actually sit down and prove to the examiners that you can do on your own. At home, there is no aid in terms of being given formulas, and although coursework is undertaken, it is not given so much to things you do outside the examination itself. That will tell exactly, your cognitive level, just how much you can do. So, when we turn out children into the society, who say that they have completed certain examinations, then you know they are ready for the world of work. Here, in England, when they are turned out from school, they are still not ready for the world of work because they cannot spell properly. You are talking about people who have completed high school at the secondary and tertiary levels and they are still not ready.
Q. More self-confidence because of your Caribbean experience?
SS. I don't know whether I can compare it because it depends on the parentage. Not so much as where you are from. It depends on the values that your parents instill in you. They teach you what you know, as well as the wider society. If we were totally British, and never went out of the country at all then I would learn the values that my parents had to give to me, and that would be all I would know. So, you do have confident people who, in my estimation should know better. I have learnt to be self-reliant, because there are situations where I had to rely on myself to succeed, sometimes one fails, but you try until you succeed. In this country if you fail, you have different options, you don't need to continue to persevere. That is a very important word. I am used to persevering.
Q. Work?
SS. Because I'm a mother now, that makes it slightly harder. That's a very important factor I believe that I have the necessary skills for work. What I have found in this country is, and what they are asking for is years and experience. Now that may be my downfall, if I'm looking for something outside my training, which is teaching. Because I have not been working in this country for 2 — 3 years in an accounting firm, which is what I do on the side, that would give another person the preference over me. They would prefer to take someone else who has been in that line of work for longer than a year, as opposed to somebody who is qualified. That is my observation.
I didn't find it easy at all to get work in this country. References and experiences had to relate to this country. Those jobs, which I have had in the past, unfortunately I felt stagnant. I knew that there was a lot more that I could offer to that organisation. Because of the level I had gone in at, which is a lower level than I can perform because I cannot give a reference from another company in this country. Now, if I was to give a reference from back home it would be different and it would have easy. So I didn't feel that possibilities were opened to me. I remember trying to get a job, I told them all I could do, my status and everything else they needed to know about me and what I could offer to the organisation, and everything was fine until we got to the ethnic origin section. Much to my surprise they never phoned me back. I wouldn't like to think it was race, but I didn't see any other reason, because everything was alright up to that point.
Q. Accepted as part of the society?
SS. I don't think that we are totally accepted. I don't think that we are part of the society in the full sense of the word. Or that we are a piece of the puzzle that fits in so easily and smoothly that you didn't even know it was missing. I think we a 'different' and even though some of our people have come into the system and Are doing reasonably well, I still feel that there is a hitch in the smooth running of how it ought to be. This can be because of many things, but on a very personal level, I don’t feel very comfortable, for what it’s worth.
Q. Black consciousness?
SS. I'm not too sure what that is geared towards, if I am going by what the name implies which is if as black people, we are conscious of what we are worth, but I see everyone as individuals with a life and abilities and opportunities which should be there for anyone to take regardless of colour, class, ethnic origins etc.
Q. Education and authority figures?
SS. I think there are people who are put there, and whatever they are teaching I am understanding and if I'm not understanding I like the way they respond to me, to have something explained again. I've never had a problem in the educational system.
Q. Most important achievement of Caribbean in recent days?
SS. I can be very recent — that's football. Although I am not a football fan, I am really very proud of Jamaica, because there is a lot of talent on the island. We just need a push; an opening and we can turn an organisation around, so that it's second to none.
Q. Hopes for the future?
SS.. My thoughts are not centered on my children to give them what I never had, and I'm not talking about money here, but the values that I was not given a chance to be taught. I would like to spend time doing that, and if I succeed I will be the happiest woman alive. With a reasonable concept of self you can do anything and go anywhere. I'm not talking about not mixing with the rest of the crowd, irrespective of where the crowd comes from, or whether it's white or not. But to have the ability to take part in things only when and if they are of a certain standard. My fears are whether I'm doing the teaching to my children in the right way, so that it is in their bloodstream, and, so that when they are out they make the right choices. And if they should make the wrong choice, that they will know how to deal with it and if they don't and they come to me, that I should know how to deal with it to make them feel stronger, so that they want to press on.
