Oral History Interview - Kushna Rahman
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Audio file
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2016.30
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Audio recording of an oral history interview with Kushna Rahman, who was born in Sylhet, Bangladesh and came to Britain c.1970.
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INTERVIEW WITH KHUSHNA RAHMAN
Q. Could you start by telling me where you were born?
Khushna Rahman (KR). I was born in Bangladesh. It’s a province called Sylhet.
Q. Is that a town or a country?
KR. No.
Q. A place?
KR. It’s, it’s a countryside. My father had a tea estate that time.
Q. Oh really?
KR. So it’s more in the country, you know where all the tea estates are, tea estates are in certain part of the place, you know so it’s not all over, it’s all the estates were there, and one of the tea estates you know.
Q. So did you live on the estate or near it?
KR. No on the, he was the manager of the tea estate, so we lived on the estate, tea estate.
Q. What was that like?
KR. I don’t know I was born there, I was…but I heard it’s a lovely bungalow, you know they usually have a lovely bungalow, yes so, I was only there until I was two years old. So I don’t remember.
Q. Oh right, so you don’t remember that bit?
KR. Yes.
Q. And then where did you live after that?
KR. After that we moved to the main city, you know Dhaka so I was brought up there.
Q. Can you remember what your house was like?
KR. Yes it was and lots of big rooms, and lots of big garden to play and I had lots of nice neighbours, most of them were my school friends anyway and we all went to school.
Actually we went to the school together, yes.
Q. What was school like?
KR. Well I started off in kindergarten, it was an English kindergarten actually, it was run by
English couple and she had, she had Bangladeshi workers as well, but they’re the one who were the owner of the school. Then I think I was there until five, then when I then I went to girls school, just girls school. There was lots of girls schools there because of the situation back home, you know they prefer single sex schools, and it was lovely. I’ve got lovely memories of school, we had nice uniform and…
Q. It’s unusual to like your school uniform.
KR. Yes, yes, no it was, I mean you don’t like it until it’s gone, you know then you think oh it was a nice uniform that time yes, because when you’re small you want to show off don’t you?, you want to show off your lovely dress and you can’t you know, because in school you’re not allowed to wear, but we did, we did have our functions and celebrations where we could wear anything we like you know.
Q. What was your main memory of school, what were your favourite lessons?
KR. My favourite lessons was English actually, I, I was very keen on English because I already went to kindergarten in English, the school wasn’t English medium, you know, we back home we have English medium and Bengali medium, but I went to Bengali medium afterwards, but because I went to English school before, I was very good at English, and I must say I was one of the best students in the class, because I was always trying to compete, I wouldn’t have defeat, it was always me and my friend, we were trying to compete, either shed become first, I’d become second, or I’d become first, she’d become second, you know, it was always the other way round, if I became second, it’s, I’m sure that I don’t become second. But it was very good, you know, I liked everything, I loved English more than anything you know.
Q. What did you do in your spare time?
KR. Back home because we lived in a quite, well most of the people do go, but what happens all our houses were around one open ground, you know, where everyone played in there, so we always went to play there until it was nearly dark, we played and I had lots of friends and all the people back home, they’re like, they become relatives really, you know, everybody knows everybody, so we played we went to each others house, there’s no problem as long as we came back before dark, it was safe, everybody knew everybody you know, there was no question of where has she disappeared to, as long as we came home you know before dark.
Yes, we played with dolls, we played with, I was a bit of a tomboy as well, so I played with the boys a lot until I was about ten, you know, then I had to be stopped. But I did, I did play with the girls as well, I, I didn’t mind doing that, because sometimes I see them having a nice time, I go and join them. But I prefer to play football or cricket or something you know, yes.
Q. Did you have a clear idea what you wanted to do when you grew up?
KR. Oh yes, I had a, my uncle was in the air force, he was a pilot that time, he is a captain now, also our next door neighbour, the girl was an air hostess, so I really wanted to become that time I really wanted to , nothing but air hostess, and because my uncle’s a pilot he used to take us to the , because we used to live near the airport, so he used to take us to the airport sometime, give us a tour in the plane and everything and also my father ever since we small, ever since we known, we always travel abroad, not for long but we always went to see him off at the airport, went to collect him, you know so I had this, I was in love with being, somewhere something to do with the aeroplane you know? An air hostess.
Q. Yes, glamorous.
KR. Yes, it’s something glamorous. I used to see people picking that girl up, the air hostess, and taking her, they wore lovely uniforms you know, so my dream was to become an air hostess.
Q. So when did you, how old were you when you left Bangladesh?
KR. I was about 12, when I came here I started secondary school.
Q. Yes at 12, yes.
KR. Yes, yes.
Q. And do you know why your family left?
KR. Yes my father was sent from his work, he worked for the United Nations and he was given a post here, then we left England as well, then we went somewhere else, Ceylon, in Sri Lanka, then we came back to England again and idea was when we came back here, we just came one final time, spend some time here and then just go back to, because my fathers also a barrister, he went and practised law there, then the war started and so he didn’t want to go back straightaway, and he was given another post here, and since then we’ve been here.
Q. Never left?
KR. Never got back to for a long time you know.
Q. Can you remember what you thought when you heard that you were coming to
England?
KR. I was very excited, because my father was here as a student, He, he was here when we were small, you know and he came to do his law here. So he used to send us lovely clothes and lovely postcards, you know, so we were really excited and I thought it was very very glamorous, London, but unfortunately I was disappointed. At the beginning you know.
Q. Yes so what were your first impressions?
KR. When I got off here, you know we came here from Heathrow, I was living in Hendon that time, and it was a hot day and you know it was everything look like on a hot day you know and I was really disappointed but I think I got used to it later, you know and as I grew older, you know I became quite… , I wouldn’t live anywhere else, you know other than London, you know and even if I have to go, I’ll really miss it, you know, so I think as a little girl you know your glamorous version is different you know? You think lovely buildings and lovely parks, because I went to Switzerland before that and I thought it was so nice and I expected London to be similar you know?, Only with more nicer buildings and, but it wasn’t but yes, but I think London is a place people get used to you know?, they just, whether they like it or not, even people who don’t like it, they get used to it, and they can’t you know.
Q. How about you know, Dhaka is a big city, but it’s not as big as London.
KR. No, it’s not as big as London, but you know it’s got it’s well, what else it’s glamorous parts you know, some part of the town is very nice posh and some part is really old town where most of the poor people live, that means the buildings are run down you know and there’s nice shopping centre and there’s not so nice shopping centre, so you’ve got a choice you know, to us it was big that time, you know?
Q. But then you’re coming to London?
KR. Yes, yes coming to London, it’s, it’s like a big country itself isn’t it yes. But it’s not so limited you know, when you, when I lived in Bangladesh it’s you your outing is not so limited you just go to shopping centres, we used to go for ice creams and cinema sometimes and just to visit the relatives, we didn’t go so much everywhere, we didn’t go touring round the whole city or anything you know, not like London, you can go anywhere if you want to you know, but it wasn’t like that and because we are chaperoned all the time, it was also limited, I mean we went to the zoo and things like that, from school, but not so much, you know so we didn’t know, we only knew certain places, if wherever we went we went by car, you know so it’ s not.
Q. So you’re quite sheltered?
KR. Unless, I don’t think, yes I don’t think even in the big, I was only there until twelve, even the big girls, you know the big ladies they don’t go anywhere, you know really, it’s either to college or school, college or work if they do work and that’s it you know and they usually chaperone everywhere, either they get a lift from somewhere even if they go by bus, the servants drop them by the bus stop, go and collect them certain time, mind you most schools and colleges have bus service to drop you home, to pick you up.
Q. Yes, yes.
KR. So it’s not they’re not, it’s only when you go to university and everything they start being independent you know, and most of them come from outside Dhaka anyway, so they have to live there, so they they become independent. Girls have a sheltered life there, you know very sheltered, unless they ‘re very lucky if they got an older brother, you know, who takes them everywhere you know otherwise even they’re not allowed to go, unless you start college, you’re not even allowed to go the movies without your, without somebody.
Q. Somebody from the family to be there.
KR. Because when you’re in the college, you know, you go with your friends some parents know they’re going with their friends, whole bunch of girls, then they feel safe, but you’re not really allowed, you know to go anywhere.
Q. Did you notice that when you came, I mean at 12 to London, did you notice that
that was different in London?
KR. Oh no, that was very different we could go to the, I mean we had corner shop back home, but it was very near the house, I mean my mum can see where we are, you know it’s only a, because like I said, we had an open field in the middle and everyone you know you could everyone was going out, coming in you could see, because all the houses were round to show, to show that we know the way, because there was whole, there was three of us together, anyway then we started going ourselves, you know three of us, so it was nice independence, we used to go home and in the middle, I used to live in Finchley, with some middle gate of the shopping centre, sometimes we had to change the buses if we couldn’t get the bus that goes all the way, which we like because we got off at the middle, look at
Smith’s and Woolworth’s and stuff like that, so it was nice and you could go to the shop anytime, you could go to the Library without being chaperoned you know, so it was nice.
Q. How was it starting a new school ? What was that like?
KR. I know there’s a lot of racism everywhere, but when we started school, it was quite nice, we didn’t have all that, that time there was hardly any Asians when we came, it was, you know just before the East Africans arrived, because the, when they came, it’s sort of the Asians were everywhere you know, because the whole lot of there, so until we came just before that and there was hardly any Asians in the school, maybe one or two if you really count, in the classroom, I mean I’m not, I didn’t feel, I didn’t think of any racism anyway, you know when I came, I didn’t think of it and I didn’t, it didn’t occur to me later either I didn’t feel it. And a lot of the, I found a lot of the girls they treated me like a tourist you know, like overseas, student. you know it was quite nice really, I mean I knew a little bit English, but they were really treating me like, I don’t know anything, do this , do that, you know they were really treating me nicely and the teachers were very nice, I think of it now maybe it was something to do with the school I went to because it wasn’t in inner London, it was in Barnet people are a bit different, you know it’s a bit out, although it’s in London it’s a bit on the outskirts yes.
Because I remember, some of the girls when we went for outings and everything, I remember some of them hadn’t been to the West End or anything, you know I was really surprised you know, but yes it was lovely school was lovely, but I was a bit bored because what happened was, at the end, when I was in the fifth form, these East Africans came you know, I think we met some Asian friends and one of the friend went to college nearby, Barnet College, to do her A-levels and because she was in an older class, but she was my friend, she used to come down to see all of us and I was really tempted to go and join her because she says she has some lovely Asian friends there and they were having nice time and everything. So I was a bit bored you know and knowing that and I visited her sometimes as well so I didn’t do my A-levels in school, I wanted to do it in the college, you know, so I left school, I had a lovely time but I regret because I know I would have done better at it if I had stayed in school.
Q. Really?
KR. Yes, because I had lovely teachers and they were really strict, I mean they treat you like a child you know male sure you do your homework, in college they don’t.
Q. No, yes, yes.
KR. Your free you know to do, you know it’s your loss if you don’t do it. But I had a lovely, lovely time in college you know. I made lovely friends. They’re the first Asian friends I had in college.
Q. Really?
KR. Yes, I mean I had Asian friends who left you know, who went to college but it was nice doing things, because I , all I did with my English friends in college was go shopping on Saturdays that’s all you know, we didn’t do anything else. They weren’t, I mean, I thought they’re not allowed, I mean they’re quite young really. I was quite young, but that’s all we did. And so it was nice going out with Asian friends and I didn’t we didn’t have any, other than my home, we didn’t have any Asian touch at all, you know, like nothing.
Q. Yes.
Yes so it was nice going round with them and having some interest sharing some interest that I didn’t have that with other friends you know.
Q. Yes, yes more in common.
KR. Yes more in common, mind you I was quite close to a few of the girls and I keep in touch as well, you know the, from the school, we don’t see each other much, but you know from time to time like, say if I have a party I’ll ask her, if she has a party she’ll ask. She’ll ask me things like that you know, it’s not we just keep in touch you know and I invited her to my wedding, they invited me to their wedding, you know it’s like that, it’s not so much socialising together.
Q. Yes, but you know what’s happening, yes.
KR. But we keep in touch because so much change is going through everywhere you know, somebody’s gone abroad you know things, but I do keep in touch, you know we’re good friends.
Q. When you were at college did you have clear idea then what you wanted to do?
KR. Yes, I had a clear idea, I wanted to become a teacher, it changes doesn’t it? I love, because I love children I always did, so I mean back home although I wanted I wanted to become an air hostess, it was, I know I couldn’t because it’s not such a thing, girls do from a what you would call decent family you know it’s only because you have to mix with men and I mean you’d leave home and you stay out you know alone in the night, it wasn’t, it wasn’t what was expected of any girl, you know, parents wouldn’t let them, it’s very very broad minded family who let the girls go, I mean if I go back now I don’t see anything wrong with being an air hostess, I think it’s lovely and I would encourage my children to do if they wanted to become, because I always wanted to work with children. But then for a while I wanted to become a nurse as well, but what I thought was I’ll stick to one thing, you know I’ll become a teacher, but I got married quite early, and I got pregnant as well about 2, 3 months’ time, so I thought I’ll take some time off, that was it, that was the last time off, yes but I did aim for my O-levels and A-levels, were aiming to become a teacher.
Q. Teacher training.
KR. Yes teacher’s training. I started I did one year, I did in Middlesex Polytechnic, I did the education degree you know, B Ed yes, but that’s the time I met my husband and got married.
Q. So now how many children have you got?
KR. I’ve got three.
Q. What’s the how old is the oldest?
KR. The oldest is fifteen.
Q. Gosh. Yes I remember you telling me.
KR. That’s the time, that’s the time I got pregnant, you know, and I was 18 1/2.
Q. Do you think that they’re upbringing is different to yours from being brought up here?
KR. Oh yes, I think, I think we’re not so protective like our parents were and we feel that because we talk in the media and talk to other people, we feel that if we are, they not going to be so good, if we’re so protective, we should give them some independence. I don’t know, I don’t think that’s so much, oh we didn’t have any, but let’s give our children independence, I don’t think we think like that, it’s just that we think, they’re here they need that you know and if you don’t give them maybe they’ll they won’t like it much you know they’ll think oh everyone else is doing it why can’t I do it, you know, oh I’m, I was very protective towards my son, because he was the only child, you know?
Q. Yes first one.
KR. I took him everywhere with, with me but now he’s older, and I’ve got two other young ones, I’ll let him do most things, I mean as long as he’s going with someone like football match, I won’t let him go alone, you know.
Q. No, no parent will let them.
KR. No, no I’ll let him go with his friend, if I know that he’s going if he wants to go, I’ll make sure that he’s , his friends got a ticket as well so I know that, I know that he’ll take the opportunity to go alone if his friends are not coming, but I’ll say, I’ve got to know you’ve got two tickets, then you can go you know, but sometimes he goes to the movies with his friends, but it’s not that often, he’s very homely. Thank God you know.
Q. But he’s probably got exams coming up soon.
KR. Yes. Next year he’s doing GCSE, but he’s always been homely, you know he prefers to have his friends over to his house, rather than him going over, you know most of the children like to come over anyway you know all his friends all his social things has been from home, if they went out they get went from my house you know, it’s not because I wanted it that way it just turned out way, they all came to meet him so it’s good, I can see what’s happening you know? Yes.
Q. Have you ever been back to Bangladesh to visit?
KR. Yes I have. Not since I got married but I went nearly every year because my father’s work always paid for our tickets and everything yes, they give us holiday once a year and sometimes we didn’t go, we went somewhere else instead, you know, we went, my daddy was into travelling and he took whole lot of us, there was six of us everywhere with him you know, he showed us bit of the world, but you know it was nice.
Q. Did you did you notice any changes when you went back?
KR. Oh, yes, I ,I’ve found everything went slow there, you know, you know people are a bit slow in thinking, people are not what’s the word, not very adventurous you know, mind you they had their limit, now I think it was limited you know, but yes they were very excited, I came from abroad you know they want to be my friend you know, I mean they were my friends already but they wanted me to come and visit them and yes it was nice, it’ s like you’re a hero there, when you go back you know it’s nice everyone came to see you, all I had to do was tell some of them that I’m here and everyone came to see me, I went to visit them and they told me how lucky I was to live abroad you know it was nice, and most of them because everyone, most of them because everyone, most people owned their own home everybody still at the same place.
Q. Yes, so it’s easy to keep in touch?
KR. Yes, yes and then, I haven’t been for a long time, but even if I go back now I know how to track them because the parents will tell me where they are, they’ll be married off obviously, there’s one or two I keep in touch with all the time.
Q. Have your children ever been to Bangladesh?
KR. No they haven’t since I got married I didn’t go. Unfortunately my husbands all his family is here and my immediate family is here, so…
Q. So there’s not a real reason to go back?
KR. Yes, yes and unfortunately my husband is not very materialistic, well neither am I but I wished he was you know, he he’s not thinking ‘Oh let save up we’ll go once’, you know he doesn’t think like that, he lives for the day, you know … let’s go out, let’s do this, you know he’s not thinking of long term.
Q. So how much I mean, how much do you think your kids know about Bangladesh and their culture from Bangladesh ?
KR. Yes, well, I don’t know, it’s difficult to tell for my son. I mean he’s doing everything you know, I unfortunately because, it’s unfortunate I said before, fortunately my husband has everybody here, even his his all his mums relatives, all his dad’s relatives, his family came from you know those days, they came by ship, his family starts from there in this country, from his grandfather from his mother’s side, grandfather from his fathers, they all came here you see, and so everybody’s here, they brought all their sons and daughters and everybody’s here, so because of that they get a lot of influence of the Bangladeshi culture you know we go and visit often and their doing their religious bit, he goes to Qu’ran class, but they’re they’re not fond of talking the language I think.
I think they feel that they’re speaking outside something and unfortunately my husband doesn’t encourage it either, he’s always speaking in English. And it’s very difficult you know, if you’re talking to him in English, although you know Bengali, I’ll I’ll speak back to him in English, yes, so there was partly he’s not very, he understands Bengali but he doesn’t speak he doesn’t want to speak, so I’m trying to and because the girls are here, they’re speaking to their brother in English, he’s speaking, it’s very difficult you know, but I’m I’m trying my best to make them speak Bengali you know, because people like my mother, my mother in law, although they’re in this country, they have to learn English, they’re not fluent English speaking.
Q. Yes more comfortable in Bengali.
KR. Yes they’re more comfortable in Bengali and and they believe their grand children should speak fluent Bengali as well you know, they tell us off all the time but I mean I suppose it’s my fault, I’m trying to make excuses for my husband, he’s terrible, he’s really bad, he’s always speaking in English you know.
Q. I suppose it’s all around you the whole time so it’s convenient.
KR. Yes, yes I suppose but we spoke Bengali at home all the time with my parents we always spoke Bengali although my mother, our mother didn’t know very well, but my father my sisters and my brothers you know we always spoke Bengali my mother always told us off if we didn’t. But my husband’s family, I think because they were 3 boys in the house they didn’t spend much time at home or even if they did they did their own thing you know. Girls are girls are more into mixing with mothers and I think that’s how they got used to their own language, the English language you know, so they only communicated when they had to and because they’ve got loads and loads of cousins in this country, they all spoke English you know, so…
Q. The big test isn’t it is meant to be because I know a few of my friends are bilingual
or trilingual even and they they say that the thing that gets them worried when they start to dream in English.
KR. I think I do as well, you know .Yes, yes, yes.
Q. Yes you just you speak it so much and then they thinking oh.
KR. My, my, I speak, I speak quite, I’m much better than my husband, in in my own language, so my mother in law always tells me that you teach him, you know my husband, teach him to speak, because when he’s talking even to his mum, there’s lots of English words in the middle you know, I mean I do that with anybody as well, anybody who’s Bengali, but I won’t do that to my mother and my mother in law. I’d say it in Bengali all the way, you know. He doesn’t and when he doesn’t he sort of stops in the middle of a sentence, then you know and expects his mother and my mother to understand what he’s saying you know. But he speaks a lot more since he got married you know, because when we met you know I wanted to speak to him in my language, it was nice you know, I was so proud that I’d met somebody from Bangladesh and you know it was nice I wanted to speak my language and I think he did as well, it was nice hearing , you know, I mean everybody if you have a girlfriend or boyfriend, most people had someone who’s not Bengali you know someone like an English girlfriend or something, but because and it’s it’s common now, that lot of children grew up, there’s lots of Bengali children around but those days it’s very rare, I mean I couldn’t believe when I met my husband he’s from Bangladesh and he couldn’t believe, you know it’s it’s very very rare thing you know, two people meeting you know outside their family whose from same background everything and we were exactly same you know like our families are similar standard, our ways of life of two families it’s all very very same,
you know? It’s amazing.
Q. Yes so you could click quickly.
KR. I mean we don’t have any caste system, but we do have like a class system you know.
Q. Yes, there’s an expectation that you’ll marry someone similar.
KR. Yes, someone similar my husband I mean I’m not snob, but you know what I mean I don’t people come abroad they don’t see it that way, you know, because I think at the moment parents see it as that class, but we see it as, as long as you like the guy, as long as you know like we can talk we can get on, that’s fine, you know it doesn’t matter if he’s from a lower class, or something we don’t see it that way, but our parents did, and I don’t know, I don’t think they see it anymore you know, they say as long as he’s educated he’s good and he’s that you know, but me and my husband, it it was perfect, it was really perfect, in both ways, family wise, we even come from the not so far you know, like back home, it’s like he’s from Surrey and I’m from London you know and it’s it’s very near as well, it’s amazing you know.
Q. How did you get when you came? Do you live in Stoke Newington now?
KR. No, Yes, I live in Stoke Newington now, I lived when I came I lived in Hendon for six months, then I moved to Finchley I lived there for a long time all my young days were there.
Q. As you were growing up. How did you end up in Stoke Newington?
KR. Yes, I’ll tell you, then when I got married, slowly slowly each of us were leaving home you know the girls, so my mum and dad moved into Highgate, a smaller place, the Parliament Hill side not the Highgate (?) essentially and we me and my husband we lived in Tufnell Park, yes, but my husband was a student when we married and then like I said, he was not a saver, neither was I, we enjoyed ourselves quite a lot, we went out nearly every day for eating you know, restaurants, everything, because when we met we couldn’t go out much, you know I wasn’t allowed you see so we took advantage of that when we got married, we went out nearly every day, you know to eat out, and then we had our little boy, we took him everywhere with us, I didn’t see him as a child, because I was quite young, we saw him as part of us you know he was allowed, you know if he was allowed you know we’d take him everywhere with us, so what happened when we went Tuffnell Park it was a small flat, we had to share the bathroom and the toilet, but we had our kitchen, but he was getting bigger and we had to move out, my husband wasn’t doing anything about it, I ,I got quite annoyed, so I went, people were telling me things, so I went to apply for a council house, and they weren’t giving us any either, so one day they told me look if you really, need one are you move out of the borough, which is, it was Camden borough you know and I said yes, and they gave me this place and it was heaven to start with because it was a whole flat to ourselves.
Q. Yes space yes.
KR. And where we live it’s nice, really nice, it’s only six of us in one block and luckily there were really good neighbours so I was really excited, we took it, also my, what my husband, my husband was brought up in Stoke Newington you see, so he had this emotional feeling about Stoke Newington he went to school here where my son goes he did all his schooling here, so obviously we took it you know and we’ve been stuck here since, I’ll tell you, yes I’ll tell you until my girl was born, she’s six now, the older one is six and the younger one is three, until they were born we didn’t feel we needed a home, we never even thought of it you know and now we’re thinking we should buy a house, we should do, I mean we could have done that because my son was alone for a long time, I could easily work, he went to school I had absolutely nothing to do, I even went to his work and met him, I was doing this sort of thing, so I was absolutely nothing to do, I could have worked you know, my husband, my husband didn’t believe in, he still doesn’t believe in me working you know although he’s brought up here, he’s very I don’t know what’s the word for it…
Q. But with three children.
KR. Yes, no, he believes that children need their mum around you know and money is not that important. But I’m saying if we worked out life that way, I could easily worked with him in the school. Even a school helper, you know something that I would be free for him, you know whenever he was free, but we didn’t plan it like that, it’s only when the family became bigger we think ‘Oh we should have done that, we should have done this, let’s do this, let’s do that, so we’re working at it now, so hopefully we will have you know, home soon, our own home. I’m not bothered at the moment, I don’t want to move, we need a bigger place, I don’t want to move, because I’ve got lovely lovely neighbours, I can’t tell you , you know they’re really nice, I don’t think I’ll get that like, get it like that again you know, so I want, if I move I want to have a final move and because my father, also my husband’s father, they never had a permanent place, they moved from this house to that house, that house to this house, we don’t to to be like that you know we want one move, then one final move, that’s it well just live there you know.
Q. Could you start by telling me where you were born?
Khushna Rahman (KR). I was born in Bangladesh. It’s a province called Sylhet.
Q. Is that a town or a country?
KR. No.
Q. A place?
KR. It’s, it’s a countryside. My father had a tea estate that time.
Q. Oh really?
KR. So it’s more in the country, you know where all the tea estates are, tea estates are in certain part of the place, you know so it’s not all over, it’s all the estates were there, and one of the tea estates you know.
Q. So did you live on the estate or near it?
KR. No on the, he was the manager of the tea estate, so we lived on the estate, tea estate.
Q. What was that like?
KR. I don’t know I was born there, I was…but I heard it’s a lovely bungalow, you know they usually have a lovely bungalow, yes so, I was only there until I was two years old. So I don’t remember.
Q. Oh right, so you don’t remember that bit?
KR. Yes.
Q. And then where did you live after that?
KR. After that we moved to the main city, you know Dhaka so I was brought up there.
Q. Can you remember what your house was like?
KR. Yes it was and lots of big rooms, and lots of big garden to play and I had lots of nice neighbours, most of them were my school friends anyway and we all went to school.
Actually we went to the school together, yes.
Q. What was school like?
KR. Well I started off in kindergarten, it was an English kindergarten actually, it was run by
English couple and she had, she had Bangladeshi workers as well, but they’re the one who were the owner of the school. Then I think I was there until five, then when I then I went to girls school, just girls school. There was lots of girls schools there because of the situation back home, you know they prefer single sex schools, and it was lovely. I’ve got lovely memories of school, we had nice uniform and…
Q. It’s unusual to like your school uniform.
KR. Yes, yes, no it was, I mean you don’t like it until it’s gone, you know then you think oh it was a nice uniform that time yes, because when you’re small you want to show off don’t you?, you want to show off your lovely dress and you can’t you know, because in school you’re not allowed to wear, but we did, we did have our functions and celebrations where we could wear anything we like you know.
Q. What was your main memory of school, what were your favourite lessons?
KR. My favourite lessons was English actually, I, I was very keen on English because I already went to kindergarten in English, the school wasn’t English medium, you know, we back home we have English medium and Bengali medium, but I went to Bengali medium afterwards, but because I went to English school before, I was very good at English, and I must say I was one of the best students in the class, because I was always trying to compete, I wouldn’t have defeat, it was always me and my friend, we were trying to compete, either shed become first, I’d become second, or I’d become first, she’d become second, you know, it was always the other way round, if I became second, it’s, I’m sure that I don’t become second. But it was very good, you know, I liked everything, I loved English more than anything you know.
Q. What did you do in your spare time?
KR. Back home because we lived in a quite, well most of the people do go, but what happens all our houses were around one open ground, you know, where everyone played in there, so we always went to play there until it was nearly dark, we played and I had lots of friends and all the people back home, they’re like, they become relatives really, you know, everybody knows everybody, so we played we went to each others house, there’s no problem as long as we came back before dark, it was safe, everybody knew everybody you know, there was no question of where has she disappeared to, as long as we came home you know before dark.
Yes, we played with dolls, we played with, I was a bit of a tomboy as well, so I played with the boys a lot until I was about ten, you know, then I had to be stopped. But I did, I did play with the girls as well, I, I didn’t mind doing that, because sometimes I see them having a nice time, I go and join them. But I prefer to play football or cricket or something you know, yes.
Q. Did you have a clear idea what you wanted to do when you grew up?
KR. Oh yes, I had a, my uncle was in the air force, he was a pilot that time, he is a captain now, also our next door neighbour, the girl was an air hostess, so I really wanted to become that time I really wanted to , nothing but air hostess, and because my uncle’s a pilot he used to take us to the , because we used to live near the airport, so he used to take us to the airport sometime, give us a tour in the plane and everything and also my father ever since we small, ever since we known, we always travel abroad, not for long but we always went to see him off at the airport, went to collect him, you know so I had this, I was in love with being, somewhere something to do with the aeroplane you know? An air hostess.
Q. Yes, glamorous.
KR. Yes, it’s something glamorous. I used to see people picking that girl up, the air hostess, and taking her, they wore lovely uniforms you know, so my dream was to become an air hostess.
Q. So when did you, how old were you when you left Bangladesh?
KR. I was about 12, when I came here I started secondary school.
Q. Yes at 12, yes.
KR. Yes, yes.
Q. And do you know why your family left?
KR. Yes my father was sent from his work, he worked for the United Nations and he was given a post here, then we left England as well, then we went somewhere else, Ceylon, in Sri Lanka, then we came back to England again and idea was when we came back here, we just came one final time, spend some time here and then just go back to, because my fathers also a barrister, he went and practised law there, then the war started and so he didn’t want to go back straightaway, and he was given another post here, and since then we’ve been here.
Q. Never left?
KR. Never got back to for a long time you know.
Q. Can you remember what you thought when you heard that you were coming to
England?
KR. I was very excited, because my father was here as a student, He, he was here when we were small, you know and he came to do his law here. So he used to send us lovely clothes and lovely postcards, you know, so we were really excited and I thought it was very very glamorous, London, but unfortunately I was disappointed. At the beginning you know.
Q. Yes so what were your first impressions?
KR. When I got off here, you know we came here from Heathrow, I was living in Hendon that time, and it was a hot day and you know it was everything look like on a hot day you know and I was really disappointed but I think I got used to it later, you know and as I grew older, you know I became quite… , I wouldn’t live anywhere else, you know other than London, you know and even if I have to go, I’ll really miss it, you know, so I think as a little girl you know your glamorous version is different you know? You think lovely buildings and lovely parks, because I went to Switzerland before that and I thought it was so nice and I expected London to be similar you know?, Only with more nicer buildings and, but it wasn’t but yes, but I think London is a place people get used to you know?, they just, whether they like it or not, even people who don’t like it, they get used to it, and they can’t you know.
Q. How about you know, Dhaka is a big city, but it’s not as big as London.
KR. No, it’s not as big as London, but you know it’s got it’s well, what else it’s glamorous parts you know, some part of the town is very nice posh and some part is really old town where most of the poor people live, that means the buildings are run down you know and there’s nice shopping centre and there’s not so nice shopping centre, so you’ve got a choice you know, to us it was big that time, you know?
Q. But then you’re coming to London?
KR. Yes, yes coming to London, it’s, it’s like a big country itself isn’t it yes. But it’s not so limited you know, when you, when I lived in Bangladesh it’s you your outing is not so limited you just go to shopping centres, we used to go for ice creams and cinema sometimes and just to visit the relatives, we didn’t go so much everywhere, we didn’t go touring round the whole city or anything you know, not like London, you can go anywhere if you want to you know, but it wasn’t like that and because we are chaperoned all the time, it was also limited, I mean we went to the zoo and things like that, from school, but not so much, you know so we didn’t know, we only knew certain places, if wherever we went we went by car, you know so it’ s not.
Q. So you’re quite sheltered?
KR. Unless, I don’t think, yes I don’t think even in the big, I was only there until twelve, even the big girls, you know the big ladies they don’t go anywhere, you know really, it’s either to college or school, college or work if they do work and that’s it you know and they usually chaperone everywhere, either they get a lift from somewhere even if they go by bus, the servants drop them by the bus stop, go and collect them certain time, mind you most schools and colleges have bus service to drop you home, to pick you up.
Q. Yes, yes.
KR. So it’s not they’re not, it’s only when you go to university and everything they start being independent you know, and most of them come from outside Dhaka anyway, so they have to live there, so they they become independent. Girls have a sheltered life there, you know very sheltered, unless they ‘re very lucky if they got an older brother, you know, who takes them everywhere you know otherwise even they’re not allowed to go, unless you start college, you’re not even allowed to go the movies without your, without somebody.
Q. Somebody from the family to be there.
KR. Because when you’re in the college, you know, you go with your friends some parents know they’re going with their friends, whole bunch of girls, then they feel safe, but you’re not really allowed, you know to go anywhere.
Q. Did you notice that when you came, I mean at 12 to London, did you notice that
that was different in London?
KR. Oh no, that was very different we could go to the, I mean we had corner shop back home, but it was very near the house, I mean my mum can see where we are, you know it’s only a, because like I said, we had an open field in the middle and everyone you know you could everyone was going out, coming in you could see, because all the houses were round to show, to show that we know the way, because there was whole, there was three of us together, anyway then we started going ourselves, you know three of us, so it was nice independence, we used to go home and in the middle, I used to live in Finchley, with some middle gate of the shopping centre, sometimes we had to change the buses if we couldn’t get the bus that goes all the way, which we like because we got off at the middle, look at
Smith’s and Woolworth’s and stuff like that, so it was nice and you could go to the shop anytime, you could go to the Library without being chaperoned you know, so it was nice.
Q. How was it starting a new school ? What was that like?
KR. I know there’s a lot of racism everywhere, but when we started school, it was quite nice, we didn’t have all that, that time there was hardly any Asians when we came, it was, you know just before the East Africans arrived, because the, when they came, it’s sort of the Asians were everywhere you know, because the whole lot of there, so until we came just before that and there was hardly any Asians in the school, maybe one or two if you really count, in the classroom, I mean I’m not, I didn’t feel, I didn’t think of any racism anyway, you know when I came, I didn’t think of it and I didn’t, it didn’t occur to me later either I didn’t feel it. And a lot of the, I found a lot of the girls they treated me like a tourist you know, like overseas, student. you know it was quite nice really, I mean I knew a little bit English, but they were really treating me like, I don’t know anything, do this , do that, you know they were really treating me nicely and the teachers were very nice, I think of it now maybe it was something to do with the school I went to because it wasn’t in inner London, it was in Barnet people are a bit different, you know it’s a bit out, although it’s in London it’s a bit on the outskirts yes.
Because I remember, some of the girls when we went for outings and everything, I remember some of them hadn’t been to the West End or anything, you know I was really surprised you know, but yes it was lovely school was lovely, but I was a bit bored because what happened was, at the end, when I was in the fifth form, these East Africans came you know, I think we met some Asian friends and one of the friend went to college nearby, Barnet College, to do her A-levels and because she was in an older class, but she was my friend, she used to come down to see all of us and I was really tempted to go and join her because she says she has some lovely Asian friends there and they were having nice time and everything. So I was a bit bored you know and knowing that and I visited her sometimes as well so I didn’t do my A-levels in school, I wanted to do it in the college, you know, so I left school, I had a lovely time but I regret because I know I would have done better at it if I had stayed in school.
Q. Really?
KR. Yes, because I had lovely teachers and they were really strict, I mean they treat you like a child you know male sure you do your homework, in college they don’t.
Q. No, yes, yes.
KR. Your free you know to do, you know it’s your loss if you don’t do it. But I had a lovely, lovely time in college you know. I made lovely friends. They’re the first Asian friends I had in college.
Q. Really?
KR. Yes, I mean I had Asian friends who left you know, who went to college but it was nice doing things, because I , all I did with my English friends in college was go shopping on Saturdays that’s all you know, we didn’t do anything else. They weren’t, I mean, I thought they’re not allowed, I mean they’re quite young really. I was quite young, but that’s all we did. And so it was nice going out with Asian friends and I didn’t we didn’t have any, other than my home, we didn’t have any Asian touch at all, you know, like nothing.
Q. Yes.
Yes so it was nice going round with them and having some interest sharing some interest that I didn’t have that with other friends you know.
Q. Yes, yes more in common.
KR. Yes more in common, mind you I was quite close to a few of the girls and I keep in touch as well, you know the, from the school, we don’t see each other much, but you know from time to time like, say if I have a party I’ll ask her, if she has a party she’ll ask. She’ll ask me things like that you know, it’s not we just keep in touch you know and I invited her to my wedding, they invited me to their wedding, you know it’s like that, it’s not so much socialising together.
Q. Yes, but you know what’s happening, yes.
KR. But we keep in touch because so much change is going through everywhere you know, somebody’s gone abroad you know things, but I do keep in touch, you know we’re good friends.
Q. When you were at college did you have clear idea then what you wanted to do?
KR. Yes, I had a clear idea, I wanted to become a teacher, it changes doesn’t it? I love, because I love children I always did, so I mean back home although I wanted I wanted to become an air hostess, it was, I know I couldn’t because it’s not such a thing, girls do from a what you would call decent family you know it’s only because you have to mix with men and I mean you’d leave home and you stay out you know alone in the night, it wasn’t, it wasn’t what was expected of any girl, you know, parents wouldn’t let them, it’s very very broad minded family who let the girls go, I mean if I go back now I don’t see anything wrong with being an air hostess, I think it’s lovely and I would encourage my children to do if they wanted to become, because I always wanted to work with children. But then for a while I wanted to become a nurse as well, but what I thought was I’ll stick to one thing, you know I’ll become a teacher, but I got married quite early, and I got pregnant as well about 2, 3 months’ time, so I thought I’ll take some time off, that was it, that was the last time off, yes but I did aim for my O-levels and A-levels, were aiming to become a teacher.
Q. Teacher training.
KR. Yes teacher’s training. I started I did one year, I did in Middlesex Polytechnic, I did the education degree you know, B Ed yes, but that’s the time I met my husband and got married.
Q. So now how many children have you got?
KR. I’ve got three.
Q. What’s the how old is the oldest?
KR. The oldest is fifteen.
Q. Gosh. Yes I remember you telling me.
KR. That’s the time, that’s the time I got pregnant, you know, and I was 18 1/2.
Q. Do you think that they’re upbringing is different to yours from being brought up here?
KR. Oh yes, I think, I think we’re not so protective like our parents were and we feel that because we talk in the media and talk to other people, we feel that if we are, they not going to be so good, if we’re so protective, we should give them some independence. I don’t know, I don’t think that’s so much, oh we didn’t have any, but let’s give our children independence, I don’t think we think like that, it’s just that we think, they’re here they need that you know and if you don’t give them maybe they’ll they won’t like it much you know they’ll think oh everyone else is doing it why can’t I do it, you know, oh I’m, I was very protective towards my son, because he was the only child, you know?
Q. Yes first one.
KR. I took him everywhere with, with me but now he’s older, and I’ve got two other young ones, I’ll let him do most things, I mean as long as he’s going with someone like football match, I won’t let him go alone, you know.
Q. No, no parent will let them.
KR. No, no I’ll let him go with his friend, if I know that he’s going if he wants to go, I’ll make sure that he’s , his friends got a ticket as well so I know that, I know that he’ll take the opportunity to go alone if his friends are not coming, but I’ll say, I’ve got to know you’ve got two tickets, then you can go you know, but sometimes he goes to the movies with his friends, but it’s not that often, he’s very homely. Thank God you know.
Q. But he’s probably got exams coming up soon.
KR. Yes. Next year he’s doing GCSE, but he’s always been homely, you know he prefers to have his friends over to his house, rather than him going over, you know most of the children like to come over anyway you know all his friends all his social things has been from home, if they went out they get went from my house you know, it’s not because I wanted it that way it just turned out way, they all came to meet him so it’s good, I can see what’s happening you know? Yes.
Q. Have you ever been back to Bangladesh to visit?
KR. Yes I have. Not since I got married but I went nearly every year because my father’s work always paid for our tickets and everything yes, they give us holiday once a year and sometimes we didn’t go, we went somewhere else instead, you know, we went, my daddy was into travelling and he took whole lot of us, there was six of us everywhere with him you know, he showed us bit of the world, but you know it was nice.
Q. Did you did you notice any changes when you went back?
KR. Oh, yes, I ,I’ve found everything went slow there, you know, you know people are a bit slow in thinking, people are not what’s the word, not very adventurous you know, mind you they had their limit, now I think it was limited you know, but yes they were very excited, I came from abroad you know they want to be my friend you know, I mean they were my friends already but they wanted me to come and visit them and yes it was nice, it’ s like you’re a hero there, when you go back you know it’s nice everyone came to see you, all I had to do was tell some of them that I’m here and everyone came to see me, I went to visit them and they told me how lucky I was to live abroad you know it was nice, and most of them because everyone, most of them because everyone, most people owned their own home everybody still at the same place.
Q. Yes, so it’s easy to keep in touch?
KR. Yes, yes and then, I haven’t been for a long time, but even if I go back now I know how to track them because the parents will tell me where they are, they’ll be married off obviously, there’s one or two I keep in touch with all the time.
Q. Have your children ever been to Bangladesh?
KR. No they haven’t since I got married I didn’t go. Unfortunately my husbands all his family is here and my immediate family is here, so…
Q. So there’s not a real reason to go back?
KR. Yes, yes and unfortunately my husband is not very materialistic, well neither am I but I wished he was you know, he he’s not thinking ‘Oh let save up we’ll go once’, you know he doesn’t think like that, he lives for the day, you know … let’s go out, let’s do this, you know he’s not thinking of long term.
Q. So how much I mean, how much do you think your kids know about Bangladesh and their culture from Bangladesh ?
KR. Yes, well, I don’t know, it’s difficult to tell for my son. I mean he’s doing everything you know, I unfortunately because, it’s unfortunate I said before, fortunately my husband has everybody here, even his his all his mums relatives, all his dad’s relatives, his family came from you know those days, they came by ship, his family starts from there in this country, from his grandfather from his mother’s side, grandfather from his fathers, they all came here you see, and so everybody’s here, they brought all their sons and daughters and everybody’s here, so because of that they get a lot of influence of the Bangladeshi culture you know we go and visit often and their doing their religious bit, he goes to Qu’ran class, but they’re they’re not fond of talking the language I think.
I think they feel that they’re speaking outside something and unfortunately my husband doesn’t encourage it either, he’s always speaking in English. And it’s very difficult you know, if you’re talking to him in English, although you know Bengali, I’ll I’ll speak back to him in English, yes, so there was partly he’s not very, he understands Bengali but he doesn’t speak he doesn’t want to speak, so I’m trying to and because the girls are here, they’re speaking to their brother in English, he’s speaking, it’s very difficult you know, but I’m I’m trying my best to make them speak Bengali you know, because people like my mother, my mother in law, although they’re in this country, they have to learn English, they’re not fluent English speaking.
Q. Yes more comfortable in Bengali.
KR. Yes they’re more comfortable in Bengali and and they believe their grand children should speak fluent Bengali as well you know, they tell us off all the time but I mean I suppose it’s my fault, I’m trying to make excuses for my husband, he’s terrible, he’s really bad, he’s always speaking in English you know.
Q. I suppose it’s all around you the whole time so it’s convenient.
KR. Yes, yes I suppose but we spoke Bengali at home all the time with my parents we always spoke Bengali although my mother, our mother didn’t know very well, but my father my sisters and my brothers you know we always spoke Bengali my mother always told us off if we didn’t. But my husband’s family, I think because they were 3 boys in the house they didn’t spend much time at home or even if they did they did their own thing you know. Girls are girls are more into mixing with mothers and I think that’s how they got used to their own language, the English language you know, so they only communicated when they had to and because they’ve got loads and loads of cousins in this country, they all spoke English you know, so…
Q. The big test isn’t it is meant to be because I know a few of my friends are bilingual
or trilingual even and they they say that the thing that gets them worried when they start to dream in English.
KR. I think I do as well, you know .Yes, yes, yes.
Q. Yes you just you speak it so much and then they thinking oh.
KR. My, my, I speak, I speak quite, I’m much better than my husband, in in my own language, so my mother in law always tells me that you teach him, you know my husband, teach him to speak, because when he’s talking even to his mum, there’s lots of English words in the middle you know, I mean I do that with anybody as well, anybody who’s Bengali, but I won’t do that to my mother and my mother in law. I’d say it in Bengali all the way, you know. He doesn’t and when he doesn’t he sort of stops in the middle of a sentence, then you know and expects his mother and my mother to understand what he’s saying you know. But he speaks a lot more since he got married you know, because when we met you know I wanted to speak to him in my language, it was nice you know, I was so proud that I’d met somebody from Bangladesh and you know it was nice I wanted to speak my language and I think he did as well, it was nice hearing , you know, I mean everybody if you have a girlfriend or boyfriend, most people had someone who’s not Bengali you know someone like an English girlfriend or something, but because and it’s it’s common now, that lot of children grew up, there’s lots of Bengali children around but those days it’s very rare, I mean I couldn’t believe when I met my husband he’s from Bangladesh and he couldn’t believe, you know it’s it’s very very rare thing you know, two people meeting you know outside their family whose from same background everything and we were exactly same you know like our families are similar standard, our ways of life of two families it’s all very very same,
you know? It’s amazing.
Q. Yes so you could click quickly.
KR. I mean we don’t have any caste system, but we do have like a class system you know.
Q. Yes, there’s an expectation that you’ll marry someone similar.
KR. Yes, someone similar my husband I mean I’m not snob, but you know what I mean I don’t people come abroad they don’t see it that way, you know, because I think at the moment parents see it as that class, but we see it as, as long as you like the guy, as long as you know like we can talk we can get on, that’s fine, you know it doesn’t matter if he’s from a lower class, or something we don’t see it that way, but our parents did, and I don’t know, I don’t think they see it anymore you know, they say as long as he’s educated he’s good and he’s that you know, but me and my husband, it it was perfect, it was really perfect, in both ways, family wise, we even come from the not so far you know, like back home, it’s like he’s from Surrey and I’m from London you know and it’s it’s very near as well, it’s amazing you know.
Q. How did you get when you came? Do you live in Stoke Newington now?
KR. No, Yes, I live in Stoke Newington now, I lived when I came I lived in Hendon for six months, then I moved to Finchley I lived there for a long time all my young days were there.
Q. As you were growing up. How did you end up in Stoke Newington?
KR. Yes, I’ll tell you, then when I got married, slowly slowly each of us were leaving home you know the girls, so my mum and dad moved into Highgate, a smaller place, the Parliament Hill side not the Highgate (?) essentially and we me and my husband we lived in Tufnell Park, yes, but my husband was a student when we married and then like I said, he was not a saver, neither was I, we enjoyed ourselves quite a lot, we went out nearly every day for eating you know, restaurants, everything, because when we met we couldn’t go out much, you know I wasn’t allowed you see so we took advantage of that when we got married, we went out nearly every day, you know to eat out, and then we had our little boy, we took him everywhere with us, I didn’t see him as a child, because I was quite young, we saw him as part of us you know he was allowed, you know if he was allowed you know we’d take him everywhere with us, so what happened when we went Tuffnell Park it was a small flat, we had to share the bathroom and the toilet, but we had our kitchen, but he was getting bigger and we had to move out, my husband wasn’t doing anything about it, I ,I got quite annoyed, so I went, people were telling me things, so I went to apply for a council house, and they weren’t giving us any either, so one day they told me look if you really, need one are you move out of the borough, which is, it was Camden borough you know and I said yes, and they gave me this place and it was heaven to start with because it was a whole flat to ourselves.
Q. Yes space yes.
KR. And where we live it’s nice, really nice, it’s only six of us in one block and luckily there were really good neighbours so I was really excited, we took it, also my, what my husband, my husband was brought up in Stoke Newington you see, so he had this emotional feeling about Stoke Newington he went to school here where my son goes he did all his schooling here, so obviously we took it you know and we’ve been stuck here since, I’ll tell you, yes I’ll tell you until my girl was born, she’s six now, the older one is six and the younger one is three, until they were born we didn’t feel we needed a home, we never even thought of it you know and now we’re thinking we should buy a house, we should do, I mean we could have done that because my son was alone for a long time, I could easily work, he went to school I had absolutely nothing to do, I even went to his work and met him, I was doing this sort of thing, so I was absolutely nothing to do, I could have worked you know, my husband, my husband didn’t believe in, he still doesn’t believe in me working you know although he’s brought up here, he’s very I don’t know what’s the word for it…
Q. But with three children.
KR. Yes, no, he believes that children need their mum around you know and money is not that important. But I’m saying if we worked out life that way, I could easily worked with him in the school. Even a school helper, you know something that I would be free for him, you know whenever he was free, but we didn’t plan it like that, it’s only when the family became bigger we think ‘Oh we should have done that, we should have done this, let’s do this, let’s do that, so we’re working at it now, so hopefully we will have you know, home soon, our own home. I’m not bothered at the moment, I don’t want to move, we need a bigger place, I don’t want to move, because I’ve got lovely lovely neighbours, I can’t tell you , you know they’re really nice, I don’t think I’ll get that like, get it like that again you know, so I want, if I move I want to have a final move and because my father, also my husband’s father, they never had a permanent place, they moved from this house to that house, that house to this house, we don’t to to be like that you know we want one move, then one final move, that’s it well just live there you know.