Oral History Interview - Elvan Salih
Object
Audio file
Production date
2001
Object number
2018.59
Physical Description
Audio recording of an oral history interview with Elvan Salih, who was born in Turkish Cyprus and lived for most of her life on the Nightingale Estate near Hackney Downs.
At the time of this interview, Elvan was on the Estate Development Committee, helping sort out problems on the estate.
At the time of this interview, Elvan was on the Estate Development Committee, helping sort out problems on the estate.
Description
[00:00:26] Childhood living in Cyprus; parents and grandparents, main memories, games she would play
[00:02:33] Moving to Britain; her expectations, her father moving here first, the journey by boat
[00:04:19] Life growing up in Battersea; their home and the school that they attended
[00:07:16] Moving to Nightingale Estate; the layout of the flat and playing with other kids on the estate
[00:11:12] Residents from different parts of the world living in Nightingale at the time and the sense of community in the area
[00:15:09] Moving out to Stoke Newington but eventually returning to Nightingale
[00:16:59] Why the council decided to start making changes to the flats
[00:18:08] Residential committees that Elvan is a part of and the types of meetings that she attends
[00:21:38] Elvan’s brief TV appearance due to her involvement with the Nightingale Resident Association
[00:23:07] Deciding to stay in a flat rather than a house, believing it to be the safer option
[00:25:04] Elvan’s good relationship with the other residents due to her friendly personality
[00:26:33] Improvements to the building over the years; extension, central heating, etc.
[00:29:14] Choices the council gave the residents in how the building could be improved
[00:32:17] Shops and other establishments that were introduced to the neighbourhood over the years
[00:37:52] Being interviewed on TV about the poor conditions in the flat’s lift
[00:40:10] How things haven’t improved as much as she would have liked; poor lift conditions, damp in the balcony
[00:42:22] The estate developing a bad reputation; the standards going downhill but Elvan believing they will improve
[00:43:41] Resident’s responsibility to the other people that are living in the flats; how Elvan and others contributes in keeping the building in good condition
[00:46:02] Pride that the residents feel and their view on the council and the amount of work they were putting in
[00:47:43] What happened to the residents of the buildings that were knocked down
[00:49:41] Elvan considering moving out of the estate to somewhere else in the future
[00:51:17] Additions to the estate Elvan would appreciate, such as a gym for kids to exercise in
[00:02:33] Moving to Britain; her expectations, her father moving here first, the journey by boat
[00:04:19] Life growing up in Battersea; their home and the school that they attended
[00:07:16] Moving to Nightingale Estate; the layout of the flat and playing with other kids on the estate
[00:11:12] Residents from different parts of the world living in Nightingale at the time and the sense of community in the area
[00:15:09] Moving out to Stoke Newington but eventually returning to Nightingale
[00:16:59] Why the council decided to start making changes to the flats
[00:18:08] Residential committees that Elvan is a part of and the types of meetings that she attends
[00:21:38] Elvan’s brief TV appearance due to her involvement with the Nightingale Resident Association
[00:23:07] Deciding to stay in a flat rather than a house, believing it to be the safer option
[00:25:04] Elvan’s good relationship with the other residents due to her friendly personality
[00:26:33] Improvements to the building over the years; extension, central heating, etc.
[00:29:14] Choices the council gave the residents in how the building could be improved
[00:32:17] Shops and other establishments that were introduced to the neighbourhood over the years
[00:37:52] Being interviewed on TV about the poor conditions in the flat’s lift
[00:40:10] How things haven’t improved as much as she would have liked; poor lift conditions, damp in the balcony
[00:42:22] The estate developing a bad reputation; the standards going downhill but Elvan believing they will improve
[00:43:41] Resident’s responsibility to the other people that are living in the flats; how Elvan and others contributes in keeping the building in good condition
[00:46:02] Pride that the residents feel and their view on the council and the amount of work they were putting in
[00:47:43] What happened to the residents of the buildings that were knocked down
[00:49:41] Elvan considering moving out of the estate to somewhere else in the future
[00:51:17] Additions to the estate Elvan would appreciate, such as a gym for kids to exercise in
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Digital file (.mp3)
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Photo credit - Copyright Sarah Ainslie.
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Transcript of Interview with Elvan Salih
Interview Alex Sidney - 21 February 2001
Q. This is Alex Sidney interviewing on the 21st of February 2001. Could you just tell me your name, first of all? [00:00:02]
Elvan Salih (ES). Elvan, my name’s Elvan.
Q. Could you tell me--you don’t have to- your date of birth? [00:00:16]
ES. 4th of July, 1959
Q. First of all, where were you born? [00:00:26]
ES. Cyprus on the Turkish side. There is a Greek side and Turkish side.
Q. You lived there a while in your childhood, did you? [00:00:38]
ES. Yes I came here when I was about six.
Q. Before we talk about that, could you tell me a little bit about your parents and maybe your grandparents if you remember them? [00:00:47]
ES. Grandmum, my granddad died when I was small so she raised us. My grandparents, well she died when my dad was small so I just met my grandmother but not long so I don't remember her that well. Granddad I don't remember at all because I was really small when he died. But mostly we grew up here. My mum raised us, I have got my sister and I have got two brothers.
Q. First of all, before we talk about coming across here, I just wanted to talk a little bit about your background in Cyprus. If you can’t remember things, don’t worry. Were your parents religious at all? [00:01:21]
ES. Not really, no.
Q. That wasn’t an important part of your life? What were your main memories living in Cyprus? [00:01:39]
ES. Well the mountains. It was all mountains and we lived in a cave for a house. Don't remember lots.
Q. Did you live in a sort of village? [00:01:56]
ES. It was a village, so a lot of kids were outside playing.
Q. What sort of things did you play? [00:02:04]
ES. Hee. [Laughter]
Interviewer. Sorry? [Laughter]
ES. You know, Chase.
Q. Most of the things that you remember are not from being in Cyprus, is that what you’re saying? [00:02:17]
ES. Most of the things I remember is playing and running around at home.
Q. Do you know why you came to Britain? You came when you were six. [00:02:33]
ES. Yes my dad came. My dad was a policeman in Cyprus and then he came to
England to do police here and then he brought us over.
Q. How long had he been here before you came over? [00:02:45]
ES. A couple of months, four or five.
Q. Why did he come on his own? [00:02:51]
ES. To see if he could find a job here first.
Interviewer. So to send back money when he established himself.
ES. Yeah
Q. You said you were six when you came. When you arrived in Britain, did you come on a plane or did you come on a ship? [00:03:03]
ES. In a ship, it took us a week!
Q. What was that journey like? [00:03:15]
ES. I was sick all day. Didn't even go on board. We had a little room and we
stayed in there all day and ate and that was all. Too sick to go out.
Q. What did you expect England to be like before you got here? [00:03:28]
ES. I didn't think because I was a child, so I didn’t have it on my mind. Go to see dad.
Q. What did you think when you stepped off the ship? What was the first thing that struck you about the place? [00:03:44]
ES. I can't remember, I was too small.
Q. Where was your father living at the time? [00:03:55]
ES. With my sister.
Q. So your sister had already come across? [00:04:00]
ES. Yes she was already married and had kids.
Q. When did she move across? How old were you when she moved across? [00:04:05]
ES. I was newly born when she came here, I was about a year old.
Q. Where did you all live? [00:04:19]
ES. Richmond Road E8.
Q. Can you tell me a little bit about the house? [00:04:23]
ES. Right, she had a big house, it had four floors and we-- well I slept with the girls my two cousins and they slept in one bed. My mum was in her room and my sister was upstairs because she had three kids as well so there were six of us in one house. It was really nice, we used to play in there, up and down the stairs. And then we went to school here as well until we moved. My dad moved to Battersea, he had council property.
Q. Before we go onto that, what else can you remember about–you mentioned school, which school did you go to? [00:05:04]
ES. A school in Richmond Road on the corner but I don't know the name of the School.
Q. So why did you go to Battersea? [00:05:30]
ES. My dad found a house there in Battersea and he found a job there as well and he wanted to go.
Q. What was that place like, did you prefer it? [00:05:45]
ES. It was nice as well. Shackleworth Road. There was a two storey building. We was upstairs. Downstairs there was someone else, where other people were living. And I went to school there as well.
Q. So did you rent out? [00:06:07]
ES. Well the council put us on top. It was a flat
Q. What did you think of Battersea compared to living in Hackney? [00:06:17]
ES. I liked Battersea because we were near the park, Battersea park was near so I went there every day and we used to go Sunday as well and the funfair was open then as well. They have closed it now so we can't go.
Q. What did you like about that? [00:06:37]
ES. Going on the big wheel. But then they closed it and then we couldn't go no more. And
then we just go to the swings in the park and went to see the animals. And then there was another park near the school so we went there. And my sister used to come to us every weekend so there were six of us playing in the park. Going on the slide, going on the swings. It was more fun.
Q. How long were you there? [00:07:16]
ES. Until I was ten. When I was ten my dad died and we had to move over here. My sister filled in the forms so we could be near her and then we came to Nightingale.
Q. Were you still living with your mum at the time? [00:07:38]
ES. Yes
Q. Your sister sorted out arrangements with the council, so who were you living with at that point? [00:07:42]
ES. My mum.
Q. Just your mum? Any children? [00:07:52]
ES. My mum and my two brothers, three of us.
Q. And the council gave you a flat on the Nightingale Estate? [00:07:57]
ES. Yes I think it was Rathbone.
Q. Was that when it was- [00:08:05]
ES. Newly built, it was empty as well and we were in there and it was really nice. We used to come down and play downstairs. So nice and quiet as well.
Q. Can you tell me a little bit about the flat? You were a bit older then, so maybe you remember a little more about it. How big was it, first of all? [00:08:21]
ES. lt was the same as this one, three bedrooms, we had the extension here, it was bigger. The kitchen was small but there was a long passage and a lift. It was okay.
Q. So you were in one block of flats. What else was on the Nightingale estate when you came here? Were they still building it? [00:09:07]
ES. They were all finished, all six of them were finished and in between they had a wood thing, brick works. Like square bricks that kids could go and play on it and then kids broke it and then they put chairs on for them to sit on and they broke that. Then we had a swing park, then they demolished that. So they tried three or four different things but the kids wouldn't keep it. So they just made it plain. A big square and the kids brought bikes there and roller skates and I rode my brother's bike and I went and crashed into someone else. I wasn't good at it so I didn’t ride again.
Q. But did you spend most of your time playing in that area, you didn’t go off the estate? [00:10:01]
ES. No, we was on the estate and we had the park right next door so we went to the
park a lot as well.
Q. You were talking about the kids breaking things, was that kids your age? [00:10:16]
ES. My age, ten, eleven, twelve. They would kick the walls. As soon as you got one little wall that came off, they just became little devils. They didn’t behave, silly kids.
Q. Quite often people talk about how kids have got no respect today, but do you think it’s always been like that? [00:10:39]
ES. Well when we first moved it was nice and quiet but after all the kids came it was still okay playing with them, but the kids now are worse. The kids before were better, they had more respect. Here when you tell a child off, he tells you off. I think it’s worse now.
Q. Obviously you were still a child, but do you remember how many people in other flats or blocks, apart from the kids that you used to play with, did you or your mum know? Was there a sense of community? [00:11:12]
ES. Well I didn't meet people in other flats, just the people in the flat you lived in. So
when you go in the lift you meet them. The odd lift, I knew one or two, but not a lot. But in the even lift, I got to know all of them.
Q. Would you chat to them when you were going down? [00:11:57]
ES. Yes I would, say hello, how are you? You would get funny looks sometimes but other than that they were okay.
Q. Is that because you’re a friendly person? [00:12:08]
ES. Yes I’m friendly but after you regret saying hello to them.
Q. You obviously knew quite a few people even back then, where do you think they came from? Were they all from different parts of the world? [00:12:27]
ES. All over the place. One lady was from Africa. There was an old couple, they were really nice, they were English and after that an Indian family moved in. So it was all mixed. They were okay, they used to clean the floor so we had turns cleaning. So I got to know them and then after they moved someone else moved in and we came to know all of them. We were still there and they were all moving.
Q. Where did people come from, not just in terms of where they were originally been born but when the flats were first built, were they just suddenly filled with people from- [00:13:22]
ES. All over the place.
Q. Where had they previously been living? [00:13:39]
ES. There was one couple, they lived in Ireland they said. There was one from Brighton, so I think they came from all over the place. Brighton, Ireland, Scotland, there were Scottish people as well.
Q. And these were the first places they’d lived in Hackney or had they been living elsewhere in Hackney before and just been rehoused by the council? [00:13:57]
ES. Yeah, I think so. Because I didn’t go into detail because some didn’t want to give information, they didn't want you to know about them. But when I got to know some of them and asked questions like how are you and this and that, some said they lived somewhere around.
Q. You were talking about the fact that you got to know people from the lift and there was a limited sense of community. While you were in your first block in Nightingale, how do you think that changed, that sense of community in the period that you were there? How long were you there for? [00:14:24]
ES. I was there until 1985, that’s when I got married. Moved out, then I swapped with someone and came back in. So I was only out of the flats for a couple of years.
Q. And why did you do that? [00:15:09]
ES. Because mum was on the sixth floor and I wanted to be in the same area so I done a swap with someone. Because I moved to Stoke Newington, Church Street. And from there I moved back. So she went to my place and I came to hers, the eighteenth floor.
Q. Was that the only reason you wanted to come back then? It wasn’t because you thought it was so great? [Laughter] [00:15:33]
ES. [Laughter] I liked it, I liked Nightingale and I liked the flats and I liked the people around it. So I thought I might as well come back. I get along with everybody so why not. Because we have a committee here as well. We go to meetings now. So I mix with them as well.
Q. How long has that been on for? [00:16:01]
ES. A couple of years, five, six years. Since I have been going to the meetings, but before they were doing it. So I am newer.
Q. Can we just clarify what you did then? You moved out to Stoke Newington in- [00:16:24]
ES. 1985.
Q. And you came back in 1987. Was it the same block you lived in before? [00:16:33]
ES. Yeah, same block.
Q. But it was a different flat? [00:16:43]
ES. Yes, eighteenth floor.
Q. Then you lived there until? [00:16:48]
ES. Until I moved here.
Interviewer. Until the end of last year.
ES. Yeah.
Q. Can you just tell me what started to happen because you’ve obviously been here through all these changes. Can you just start at the beginning when this presumably-why did the council think there was any need to change anything? [00:16:59]
ES. They’d done a survey talking to all the people and mostly they had kids, most people had kids so they said, we want to live on the ground floor, we want a house. That is why they decided, lots of people want a house, so we will knock two down and make houses in return. That’s why they’d done it mostly. But these flats, they’re really good, they’re strong. But more people wanted houses so they don't want to put kids in flats. So from the fifth floor it has three bedrooms. Five up there’s no three bedrooms, it’s all two. But I think they are still going to get kids up there because once you move in you are going to have kids. But hopefully they are hoping to have kids on the ground floor levels.
Q. What are the different organisations that you’re involved with, there’s a residents association? [00:18:08]
ES. We’ve got NRA, Nightingale Residents Association. TMO, Tenants Management Organisation. EDC, Estate Development Committee.
Q. What do all of those things do, start with the Nightingale Residents Association. Are you involved with that? [00:18:28]
ES. Yes, I’m in the meetings.
Q. How often? [00:18:48]
ES. Once a month.
Q. What sort of things do you talk about? [00:18:51]
ES. I hope I don’t mix them up. The tenants that live on Nightingale and when we go to the offices, if they have any complaints and if there is any cars, you know the cars that they leave there that get knocked over, try and move them. EDC,try that one.
Q. What does that stand for again? [00:19:28]
ES. Estate Development Committee, With all the houses going on getting fixed, the estate getting fixed. People moving in and out.
Q. So how does that work? [00:19:41]
ES. When they are building their estate, when they are building the houses, if they have any complaints like all the noises, people come and complain about the noises then we have to have meetings with them and say keep the noises down. And they ask if they can come on Saturday and we have to discuss it and say yes or no. Mostly the houses that have been built, if there are any complaints, how they are being built, mostly that.
Q. What’s your role on that committee? [00:20:15]
ES. Just listen, just go and listen and let other people give all the answers. I go along as well.
Interviewer. So it's more because you want to be involved rather than you have any specific role.
ES. Yes I am just a committee member.
Q. Is the way things work now quite different from how things worked when you first moved into the estate? [00:20:41]
ES. I wasn't at the meetings before. From what I hear from before, the people in there didn't have a say in the matters. They were not involved. So they are more involved now and the council listens to them because they have the meetings and talk to all the people and they are more into it.
Q. What’s happening here is quite high profile isn’t it? They’ve knocked two blocks down already, are they going to knock any more down? [00:21:38]
ES. Yes, two more.
Q. When is that due to happen? [00:21:47]
ES. In two years time.
Q. You’ve been on TV, you’re a TV star yourself. Can you tell me a little bit about what happened there? [00:21:52]
ES. [Laughter] Embarrassing.
Q. How did you get involved with that? Alice Burke is the chair of the Nightingale Resident Association, and she was involved because of that but how did you get involved? [00:22:05]
ES. I was on the committee and they wanted to know people that live on the estate and what they think about Nightingale and as I was on the committee, Alice said well everyone is here, they’ll all know. That’s how they came to talk to me, because I was on the committee, l live in Nightingale. The more I thought of it, I wanted to move out because I wanted to move into Seaton, that was why. Who wants to live in Seaton, what they feel like, what do they want to know because okay I’ll try that, because I like it, I like living here.. We get other people that want to move out, I don't blame them really, people who want to live in houses. I was going to go for a house, but I thought I would go to Seaton.
Q. So many people live in flats in London, not just in Hackney, they think a house is what they want. What made you think that you wanted to stay here? Could you have been offered a house, maybe? [00:23:07]
ES. I was, I could have got a house, the new build, but I thought well when you go to a house it will be more noisier because you are going to get kids in the summer, playing outside and my two are big now, they are sixteen and thirteen, they don't need to play outside. And in a flat I think, because you get to know the neighbours and get to know them as well, it is more safer and you have the security guard downstairs. So I thought we have got someone downstairs, it will be safe, no noise, I don't know I felt more safer.
Q. So that was what you were hoping was going to happen when you did move in then. How much has that been the case? [00:24:04]
ES. We have got the security guard and they need to know the number before they come up. And I live with one neighbour at the moment, so it’s nice and quiet.
Q. So there’s hardly anyone living here at the moment? [00:24:27]
ES. No, I have just got one neighbour. On some floors there are two or three and on some floors you’ve got one person. But when we first moved in there was a bit of a hassle, there was rubbish everywhere because no one there would move, They left them outside. So we had to discuss and have the meeting for them to put the rubbish themselves out, not to leave nothing on the landings. But it is not bad, hopefully we will get more. At least it is nice and quiet as you can see.
Q. How many people are there on a floor? You’ve got one other person at the moment but are there other flats on each floor? [00:25:04]
ES. There are four flats on each floor, so I hope I will get to know all of them and as l go up and down on the lift I met some other people and there was like this other man and he goes, I have seen you somewhere. And I go yeah in the lift. I say hello to everyone. There are a couple of Turkish people who moved into this flat. You’ve got two in the even one. There is one, I got to know her. l am getting there.
Q. Are you the sort of person that, because you’re so friendly, people kind of recognize you. Are you the sort of person that gets to know everyone? [00:25:47]
ES. Yes, I try to. I tell them that if there are any problems they can always let me know because what we want to do now is, we are bound to get some mistakes at Seaton Point with paint coming off the walls and this and that, and the damp. We have damp on the balcony. I got something to do a list and let me know and I can tell the council and get to know them even more.
Q. You do that for people because you’re on the committee? [00:26:28]
ES. Yeah.
Q. So what sort of things have gone wrong then? Because when you look at this flat- [00:26:33]
ES. It looks perfect! [Laughter]
Q. [Laughter] For the benefit of the tape, if you look at this flat from right across from the side of Hackney Downs it looks fantastic, it looks brilliant. You can see the other two blocks next to it look really run down. But this block of flats looks absolutely brilliant and even when you get close up it looks really, really good. Tell me what they have done to the original block to make it so different? [00:26:38]
ES. What they have done was, they’ve extensioned. The living room was bigger. What they’ve done was, they took from the living room and gave it to the kitchen. So the kitchen is bigger, the living room is smaller. They made the patio bigger because of the walls. They knocked it down and put the windows right at the edge so they gave more space for the patio. We lost a cupboard. The cupboard in the passage was big, they made it small. The other half, they put the boiler. The bedrooms...lost an inch of the bedrooms as well. The wide bits from the walls for the wires to go in, they put an inch there so when you put the cupboard you can't push it towards the wall, you have to leave an inch. So we lost a bit of space on the bedrooms as well, but it can't be perfect. But it still looks nice because we have got the width. Because in the new build they are making squares. The bedroom is going to be square.
Q. You’ve got central heating now, did you have central heating before? [00:28:36]
ES. No it was hot air, like a square thing on the ceiling and hot air used to come through, nice and warm. This one I put on a timer. It comes on in the morning and comes on at night. If I leave it on all day it is going to be a big heating bill. And the summer is coming so I will be able to turn it off.
Q. So are you happy with the flat? [00:29:05]
ES. Yes, I am happy with it.
Q. We talked a little bit about the consultation process– that the council had asked whether families wanted to be in ground floor flats or houses. But for the people who, like yourself, who decided you wanted to stay in a block of flats, what sort of questions did you get asked about what you were going to get or about what you wanted? [00:29:14]
ES. The kitchen, we chose the kitchen cupboards and we chose the colours we wanted for the bedrooms and the door, I think the balcony doors we chose. So we did have a say in what goes into the building itself.
Q. How did you choose, how did that work? [00:30:05]
ES. They’d done a meeting and they’d bring in colours. So we went downstairs, looked at the colours and chose the cupboards. It’s all downstairs in the project shop, the first one, the colours are still in there.
Q. For other people who are moving in? [00:30:24]
ES. Yeah.
Q. So basically you could have the whole colour scheme in here with certain kitchen doors and in the flat right next door it could be completely different? [00:30:28]
ES. Yes, they are all different.
Q. Is that a good thing? [00:30:41]
ES. It is good that we can choose our own colours. I know they would pick nice colours not horrible colours, but mostly I pick all white and beige. So I had two colours I could have picked, blue or green. So for my daughter I chose green and my son I chose blue.
Q. In terms of things like how they designed the kitchen, did you have any say in that? Did people ask you, or do you know if any other people were asked? [00:31:11]
ES. Yes they checked if we had a cooker, if we had a fridge and they made spaces for the fridge, cooker and washing machines.
Q. Right, so that’s actually your own thing, they’re not fitted into the kitchen? [00:31:28]
ES. No, they just went round it.
Q. Let me get this right, they worked out every kitchen based around what the person who’s moving in has got and they built it accordingly. So even the kitchens in each of the flats are quite apart from the colours, the way that they’re laid out is quite different as well. [00:31:38]
ES. Yes some only had tumble driers so they had to have the space to go in and fridge freezer for them as well. And then we had just a cooker, washing machine and fridge so I just needed three spaces.
Q. Alright, that’s what it’s like in the flat itself. The other thing that you’ve got--when I was walking through here, I noticed that there’s quite a lot of other things to do around here. You were talking about it in 1975, it was just an open flat area for kids. So what’s happened since then? There are clearly buildings here that are used. [00:32:17]
ES. There is one building down there which is computers, you can do computers and a nursery. What they are trying to do now is a music centre. They have got it but they haven't started running it yet. And as you come in that way there is the club at the corner, youth club. But we still need more stuff. More stuff has to be done because the children they don't know what to do, they just lag. That’s why they go about touching cars.
Q. Down the other side there are other things as well, aren’t there? [00:33:25]
ES. The sweet shop
Interviewer. There’s a cafe, there’s an office for boot straps-
ES. The first one is a project shop and the second offices for housing association, for the houses they are building to go and talk to them. And the second one is the chemist and we have a café. It is the work people that are using it now. And then we have a sweet shop. Opposite that is the housing, where any complaints come. Instead of going over to Hodgkin House or Clapton, we have one here. It is better for us. And opposite that we have the big building that will be the music centre, waiting for it to be opened. And then for the work people, if we have anything going wrong they’re going to fix it, they are out there as well. And the computer thing as well.
Q. Okay so there’s quite a lot of facilities around. How long have they been there, are they new or have they been there since the start? [00:34:30]
ES. The computer one has been there for one or two years. The main offices have
been redone up, painted so about three years and the other office, which was the main office, is now an office for the maintenance people. The project shop was a chip shop first, then it was a donate shop, then they turned it into a project shop. So there have been a lot of changes, two or three years all in all.
Q. Were there buildings there before? There’s always been something there or were they used as private shops before? [00:35:46]
ES. I think they were private shops, I forgot what they were. As time goes by, you go blank. The one that was the office on the right, that was a Londis supermarket. It was always getting robbed so the poor man had to go away. He closed it.
Q. So have you got a general store or supermarket on the estate now? [00:36:19]
ES. No, not now we don’t, no. just the sweet shop we have. Dalston market and then there are some shops that open on the corner as you go towards Kingsland. There’s a Turkish shop there, like a little market. So just getting bits of shops opening everywhere. And then we have got Peles.
Q. Tell me about that.
ES. I just forgot the name of the road. A little shop there, newsagents and he sells some stuff as well, food, veg so people go to him as well. But mostly we go to the main supermarket and Dalston market. Or go to Safeways. It would be good to have something here as well.
Q. Do you think as the estate carries on being developed, then shops will open again? Or not? [00:37:18]
ES. They might do, I don't know, because they were saying they might open another shop near the main road so a lot of people come into the estate. But then the estate is just the people that live here. I think as we get the houses being built as well, it will get bigger.
Q. On your TV programme, the thing you were being interviewed about in particular was the lift. Do you want to tell me why they were interviewing you about that? [00:37:52]
ES. Because it was always a mess like they were always dumping things in it. And you had to carry a perfume on you all the time. So they were hoping that when they put cameras in Seaton it would be clean and no one would do nothing. But they still done something because the cameras can't see very well. I think it needs to be put in the middle. So when you go in you can see it point blank. This one is at the side so if you go to the side, he can't see what you are doing. So that is what they done wrong. And they put perfumes and the first day it got pinched. My perfume went away. So I was disappointed about that.
Q. So are you still carrying perfume on you again? [00:38:58]
ES. Yes in my bag. Not fair is it. You still get some people that do it on purpose to see if they can get away with it. And poor Rathbone it has got worse, the lifts.
Q. Is Rathbone one of the blocks? [00:39:20]
ES. That’s the one I was in, I was in Rathbone. That one’s got worse. Hopefully it will improve again. But this one I was hoping it would be better, the lifts would stay clean all the time but I think there are some kids-one or two- that will do it in spite.
Q. Do you think there’s anything anyone can do about that? [00:39:40]
ES. I don't know. What I do is, three o'clock or four o'clock I always press the lift to see if it is clean, so I check it and if I see anything l just go downstairs and tell the security guard to check the camera. But sometimes I go and get cleaning stuff. It is mostly kids I think. I don't know what else we can do. It is a hard one, that one.
Q. Well that’s quite interesting because in the TV programme you were sounding really enthusiastic about the lifts and you really thought it was going to be completely different and that programme was made six months ago? [00:40:10]
ES. Yes, before we moved in
Q. So in that space of time are you actually already starting to find that things aren’t as good? [00:40:30]
ES. Tell me about it.
Q. Is that what’s happening there? [00:40:39]
ES. Yeah.
Q. So in what other ways is that happening? What other things are you noticing that aren’t as good as you were hoping? [00:40:45]
ES. Well first the lift, because we were hoping no one would do anything in it but we still have a couple of kids that have done it and we can’t touch them, so we’re trying to find a way of always checking the lift. Another one, the damp in the balcony. That puts me off as well. And they are trying to do something, they are going to test some windows to see because the windows get misted when the central heating is on. So [ ] you can’t see the outside, it’s constant [ ] they say. So they are going to check some peoples balconies to see what they can do. So hopefully they will resolve it. Other than that it is okay.
Q. What about the playground, that was something that Alice Burke was talking about on that programme? [00:41:36]
ES. When they broke it and they burnt it as well, the kids. They put cameras now so hopefully they won't do it. They will know they are being watched. We’ll have to wait and see. And I can see it from the dustbin windows so I can always go and look.
Q. Nothing’s happened since, nothing like that has happened since the cameras were put in? [00:42:01]
ES. I haven't heard nothing yet, haven't heard. We will see.
Interviewer. Well with people like you around then- [Laughter] A combination of the cameras and the-
ES. [Laughter] Keep an eye, keep a watch.
Q. Well that’s kind of moving on to one of the other things I wanted to talk about. If you look at the history of the estate since 1970, it started out all nice and new but then it went downhill. Once it starts to go downhill, then people- [00:42:22]
ES. -give it a bad reputation.
Q. Yeah and then it gets worse and so on. Can you see that happening again or do you think there’s enough positive- [00:42:45]
ES. I think it might improve. With the houses being done and new people moving in, it might just improve. We will have to wait and see what the future brings. If the kids are okay and not like little things that break windows or play football in the streets and leave the cars alone. I think it is the parents as well really because if you are going to live in new houses you have to watch what the kids are doing. Out the window you can see what they are doing. So will have to wait and see and keep our fingers crossed.
Q. That’s something else that you’re talking about. If you live in a block of flats you have kind of a responsibility to all the other people that live there. Has that happened at all since you’ve moved in here? Or is it any more than it was or less than it was? [00:43:41]
ES. Don't know, I do look at the people and I do try and see if l can help and I tend to look at the cars as well because we put our cars there. If I see anything mysterious or someone trying to do something, I shout out. And see what other people do as well. I always try and keep an eye out. I always check the lifts that the lifts are working and two days ago when I came home there was this little kid playing with the lift. Pressing the lift, the lift doors open and going in. What are you doing? Nothing. Why are the lift doors open, leave alone. He goes he is waiting for someone. So I said go up and go and knock on the door, don't just stand there. You can't go too heavy on them can you. There was this other man, he told them as well. Don't play with the lift and he went out.
Q. Well you obviously make a real effort to help out, not just by going to the estate but by looking out for things. Are there other people who live here who do the same sort of things? [00:45:19]
ES. There was this couple, an old man and woman, they live on the second floor. I know they are elderly but they still look out. And I think there is another man on the seventh floor. So there is a couple of us that go to the meetings and look out.
Q. One other thing you talked about when you moved in was that everyone has a sense of pride of being in Nightingale, this beautiful new estate. Do you think that’s coming back, that feeling? You’re in a nice new block, how do you feel about that? [00:46:02]
ES. I love it and happy I have moved in. It is nice and cosy and all clean and you feel it is nice, I am happy that I am living here. And people are looking forward to move and then we will know what we will be doing. We will be settled. But it is going to take time, we are going to wait and see. And the houses are getting done as well. So they are looking forward for that. So at the moment they are waiting and want to move in. I hope it stays like that and stay happy.
Q. Hackney council is always on the news at the moment for being a failing council, is that how people see it here or do they see a different side? [00:47:08]
ES. Some people, when we have more mistakes on the house, they do feel let
down because we have waited so long for this flat. A couple of years, they took their time and when you see the mistakes that happen in some place they are not happy.
Q. So what happened to the people who lived in the blocks that were knocked down? [00:47:43]
ES. They went outside of Hackney because you have a choice where you want to go. And some of them went into most of them went into Rathbone and Pamell because they wanted to come into Seaton and some of them they want the new build so they go into Moorgate House so they just spread out and some are going to Highbury for the new build in Highbury where the waterworks are. They went there. So all went where they wanted to go.
Q. Is there a feeling that they’re all looking forward to being back together again? [00:48:28]
ES. Yeah I think they are, they are waiting. Some are pissed off because they have been waiting so long. They are waiting and they are not settled are they.There was this man, he had boxes in his room and he was fed up because he was living from a box.
Q. Even if someone’s been living in Highbury for two years, where would you say they would consider that? [00:49:06]
ES. Those on Highbury they want to stay there, they are not coming back. But the people in Per bury Estate they are going to come back to Nightingale. And then a lot of people went to Moorgate house and Rathbone.
Q. Well you’ve obviously stayed here for quite a long time, you’ve also obviously moved around a few times in your time here. You’ve probably got a nice video recording of you moving in as well. So that’s obviously something that’s really important to you, that you’ve come here now and this is what you’ve wanted. I know it’s perhaps a bit of a strange question, but do you think you will ever move again? [00:49:41]
ES. I don't know I think I will probably a couple of years later I will probably want to move.
Q. Why is that? [00:50:18]
ES. Because I only need two bedrooms because my son he wants to move out when he is older. He wants to be a singer. He is going to get rich and then he can buy me a house. I probably want to go near the seaside or country. I don't really want to stay in one place forever. You want a change of scenery, you want a change of scenery. And I always love the countryside. So I say, when you are a singer or you are rich, get me a lovely mansion with a swimming pool. That is a dream come true one day, we will see.
Q. Ok but if you had to stay in Hackney, what- [00:51:05]
ES. Oh, I would stay here, I want to stay in Seaton, nice and quiet.
Q. Are there any other things that you think are important to talk about because I don’t know what sort of work is going on around here? I might have missed some areas. [00:51:17]
ES. I am just hoping they will have a gym or something on the estate for the kids. I
discussed that as well.
Q. So how would that happen? Say you identify something that you would like to see, what do you do about it then? [00:51:48]
ES. Try and get a hall or something or have a hall built.
Q. Who would do that? [00:52:03]
ES. The council.
Q. How do you get the council to do that for you? [00:52:17]
ES. The meetings that we have, discuss it, say we want something for the kids on the estate because they get bored. Ask for a hall and see if one can be built. Because they had a computer thing built and the nursery closed down. And they had a nursery done for the school. At the moment they are using the nursery for the housing thing. So hopefully we can have a hall for the kids to do gym in it. Hard job though. We are going to try and discuss what is going to be done at Seaton point. Where there is a space. So we will see what can be done. Shame we can't do a swimming pool for swimming every day. Good exercise.
Interviewer. Well, I haven’t got any more questions so I think we’ll conclude the interview there. Thank you very much.
ES. Ok, you’re welcome.
[00:53:38] END OF INTERVIEW
Interview Alex Sidney - 21 February 2001
Q. This is Alex Sidney interviewing on the 21st of February 2001. Could you just tell me your name, first of all? [00:00:02]
Elvan Salih (ES). Elvan, my name’s Elvan.
Q. Could you tell me--you don’t have to- your date of birth? [00:00:16]
ES. 4th of July, 1959
Q. First of all, where were you born? [00:00:26]
ES. Cyprus on the Turkish side. There is a Greek side and Turkish side.
Q. You lived there a while in your childhood, did you? [00:00:38]
ES. Yes I came here when I was about six.
Q. Before we talk about that, could you tell me a little bit about your parents and maybe your grandparents if you remember them? [00:00:47]
ES. Grandmum, my granddad died when I was small so she raised us. My grandparents, well she died when my dad was small so I just met my grandmother but not long so I don't remember her that well. Granddad I don't remember at all because I was really small when he died. But mostly we grew up here. My mum raised us, I have got my sister and I have got two brothers.
Q. First of all, before we talk about coming across here, I just wanted to talk a little bit about your background in Cyprus. If you can’t remember things, don’t worry. Were your parents religious at all? [00:01:21]
ES. Not really, no.
Q. That wasn’t an important part of your life? What were your main memories living in Cyprus? [00:01:39]
ES. Well the mountains. It was all mountains and we lived in a cave for a house. Don't remember lots.
Q. Did you live in a sort of village? [00:01:56]
ES. It was a village, so a lot of kids were outside playing.
Q. What sort of things did you play? [00:02:04]
ES. Hee. [Laughter]
Interviewer. Sorry? [Laughter]
ES. You know, Chase.
Q. Most of the things that you remember are not from being in Cyprus, is that what you’re saying? [00:02:17]
ES. Most of the things I remember is playing and running around at home.
Q. Do you know why you came to Britain? You came when you were six. [00:02:33]
ES. Yes my dad came. My dad was a policeman in Cyprus and then he came to
England to do police here and then he brought us over.
Q. How long had he been here before you came over? [00:02:45]
ES. A couple of months, four or five.
Q. Why did he come on his own? [00:02:51]
ES. To see if he could find a job here first.
Interviewer. So to send back money when he established himself.
ES. Yeah
Q. You said you were six when you came. When you arrived in Britain, did you come on a plane or did you come on a ship? [00:03:03]
ES. In a ship, it took us a week!
Q. What was that journey like? [00:03:15]
ES. I was sick all day. Didn't even go on board. We had a little room and we
stayed in there all day and ate and that was all. Too sick to go out.
Q. What did you expect England to be like before you got here? [00:03:28]
ES. I didn't think because I was a child, so I didn’t have it on my mind. Go to see dad.
Q. What did you think when you stepped off the ship? What was the first thing that struck you about the place? [00:03:44]
ES. I can't remember, I was too small.
Q. Where was your father living at the time? [00:03:55]
ES. With my sister.
Q. So your sister had already come across? [00:04:00]
ES. Yes she was already married and had kids.
Q. When did she move across? How old were you when she moved across? [00:04:05]
ES. I was newly born when she came here, I was about a year old.
Q. Where did you all live? [00:04:19]
ES. Richmond Road E8.
Q. Can you tell me a little bit about the house? [00:04:23]
ES. Right, she had a big house, it had four floors and we-- well I slept with the girls my two cousins and they slept in one bed. My mum was in her room and my sister was upstairs because she had three kids as well so there were six of us in one house. It was really nice, we used to play in there, up and down the stairs. And then we went to school here as well until we moved. My dad moved to Battersea, he had council property.
Q. Before we go onto that, what else can you remember about–you mentioned school, which school did you go to? [00:05:04]
ES. A school in Richmond Road on the corner but I don't know the name of the School.
Q. So why did you go to Battersea? [00:05:30]
ES. My dad found a house there in Battersea and he found a job there as well and he wanted to go.
Q. What was that place like, did you prefer it? [00:05:45]
ES. It was nice as well. Shackleworth Road. There was a two storey building. We was upstairs. Downstairs there was someone else, where other people were living. And I went to school there as well.
Q. So did you rent out? [00:06:07]
ES. Well the council put us on top. It was a flat
Q. What did you think of Battersea compared to living in Hackney? [00:06:17]
ES. I liked Battersea because we were near the park, Battersea park was near so I went there every day and we used to go Sunday as well and the funfair was open then as well. They have closed it now so we can't go.
Q. What did you like about that? [00:06:37]
ES. Going on the big wheel. But then they closed it and then we couldn't go no more. And
then we just go to the swings in the park and went to see the animals. And then there was another park near the school so we went there. And my sister used to come to us every weekend so there were six of us playing in the park. Going on the slide, going on the swings. It was more fun.
Q. How long were you there? [00:07:16]
ES. Until I was ten. When I was ten my dad died and we had to move over here. My sister filled in the forms so we could be near her and then we came to Nightingale.
Q. Were you still living with your mum at the time? [00:07:38]
ES. Yes
Q. Your sister sorted out arrangements with the council, so who were you living with at that point? [00:07:42]
ES. My mum.
Q. Just your mum? Any children? [00:07:52]
ES. My mum and my two brothers, three of us.
Q. And the council gave you a flat on the Nightingale Estate? [00:07:57]
ES. Yes I think it was Rathbone.
Q. Was that when it was- [00:08:05]
ES. Newly built, it was empty as well and we were in there and it was really nice. We used to come down and play downstairs. So nice and quiet as well.
Q. Can you tell me a little bit about the flat? You were a bit older then, so maybe you remember a little more about it. How big was it, first of all? [00:08:21]
ES. lt was the same as this one, three bedrooms, we had the extension here, it was bigger. The kitchen was small but there was a long passage and a lift. It was okay.
Q. So you were in one block of flats. What else was on the Nightingale estate when you came here? Were they still building it? [00:09:07]
ES. They were all finished, all six of them were finished and in between they had a wood thing, brick works. Like square bricks that kids could go and play on it and then kids broke it and then they put chairs on for them to sit on and they broke that. Then we had a swing park, then they demolished that. So they tried three or four different things but the kids wouldn't keep it. So they just made it plain. A big square and the kids brought bikes there and roller skates and I rode my brother's bike and I went and crashed into someone else. I wasn't good at it so I didn’t ride again.
Q. But did you spend most of your time playing in that area, you didn’t go off the estate? [00:10:01]
ES. No, we was on the estate and we had the park right next door so we went to the
park a lot as well.
Q. You were talking about the kids breaking things, was that kids your age? [00:10:16]
ES. My age, ten, eleven, twelve. They would kick the walls. As soon as you got one little wall that came off, they just became little devils. They didn’t behave, silly kids.
Q. Quite often people talk about how kids have got no respect today, but do you think it’s always been like that? [00:10:39]
ES. Well when we first moved it was nice and quiet but after all the kids came it was still okay playing with them, but the kids now are worse. The kids before were better, they had more respect. Here when you tell a child off, he tells you off. I think it’s worse now.
Q. Obviously you were still a child, but do you remember how many people in other flats or blocks, apart from the kids that you used to play with, did you or your mum know? Was there a sense of community? [00:11:12]
ES. Well I didn't meet people in other flats, just the people in the flat you lived in. So
when you go in the lift you meet them. The odd lift, I knew one or two, but not a lot. But in the even lift, I got to know all of them.
Q. Would you chat to them when you were going down? [00:11:57]
ES. Yes I would, say hello, how are you? You would get funny looks sometimes but other than that they were okay.
Q. Is that because you’re a friendly person? [00:12:08]
ES. Yes I’m friendly but after you regret saying hello to them.
Q. You obviously knew quite a few people even back then, where do you think they came from? Were they all from different parts of the world? [00:12:27]
ES. All over the place. One lady was from Africa. There was an old couple, they were really nice, they were English and after that an Indian family moved in. So it was all mixed. They were okay, they used to clean the floor so we had turns cleaning. So I got to know them and then after they moved someone else moved in and we came to know all of them. We were still there and they were all moving.
Q. Where did people come from, not just in terms of where they were originally been born but when the flats were first built, were they just suddenly filled with people from- [00:13:22]
ES. All over the place.
Q. Where had they previously been living? [00:13:39]
ES. There was one couple, they lived in Ireland they said. There was one from Brighton, so I think they came from all over the place. Brighton, Ireland, Scotland, there were Scottish people as well.
Q. And these were the first places they’d lived in Hackney or had they been living elsewhere in Hackney before and just been rehoused by the council? [00:13:57]
ES. Yeah, I think so. Because I didn’t go into detail because some didn’t want to give information, they didn't want you to know about them. But when I got to know some of them and asked questions like how are you and this and that, some said they lived somewhere around.
Q. You were talking about the fact that you got to know people from the lift and there was a limited sense of community. While you were in your first block in Nightingale, how do you think that changed, that sense of community in the period that you were there? How long were you there for? [00:14:24]
ES. I was there until 1985, that’s when I got married. Moved out, then I swapped with someone and came back in. So I was only out of the flats for a couple of years.
Q. And why did you do that? [00:15:09]
ES. Because mum was on the sixth floor and I wanted to be in the same area so I done a swap with someone. Because I moved to Stoke Newington, Church Street. And from there I moved back. So she went to my place and I came to hers, the eighteenth floor.
Q. Was that the only reason you wanted to come back then? It wasn’t because you thought it was so great? [Laughter] [00:15:33]
ES. [Laughter] I liked it, I liked Nightingale and I liked the flats and I liked the people around it. So I thought I might as well come back. I get along with everybody so why not. Because we have a committee here as well. We go to meetings now. So I mix with them as well.
Q. How long has that been on for? [00:16:01]
ES. A couple of years, five, six years. Since I have been going to the meetings, but before they were doing it. So I am newer.
Q. Can we just clarify what you did then? You moved out to Stoke Newington in- [00:16:24]
ES. 1985.
Q. And you came back in 1987. Was it the same block you lived in before? [00:16:33]
ES. Yeah, same block.
Q. But it was a different flat? [00:16:43]
ES. Yes, eighteenth floor.
Q. Then you lived there until? [00:16:48]
ES. Until I moved here.
Interviewer. Until the end of last year.
ES. Yeah.
Q. Can you just tell me what started to happen because you’ve obviously been here through all these changes. Can you just start at the beginning when this presumably-why did the council think there was any need to change anything? [00:16:59]
ES. They’d done a survey talking to all the people and mostly they had kids, most people had kids so they said, we want to live on the ground floor, we want a house. That is why they decided, lots of people want a house, so we will knock two down and make houses in return. That’s why they’d done it mostly. But these flats, they’re really good, they’re strong. But more people wanted houses so they don't want to put kids in flats. So from the fifth floor it has three bedrooms. Five up there’s no three bedrooms, it’s all two. But I think they are still going to get kids up there because once you move in you are going to have kids. But hopefully they are hoping to have kids on the ground floor levels.
Q. What are the different organisations that you’re involved with, there’s a residents association? [00:18:08]
ES. We’ve got NRA, Nightingale Residents Association. TMO, Tenants Management Organisation. EDC, Estate Development Committee.
Q. What do all of those things do, start with the Nightingale Residents Association. Are you involved with that? [00:18:28]
ES. Yes, I’m in the meetings.
Q. How often? [00:18:48]
ES. Once a month.
Q. What sort of things do you talk about? [00:18:51]
ES. I hope I don’t mix them up. The tenants that live on Nightingale and when we go to the offices, if they have any complaints and if there is any cars, you know the cars that they leave there that get knocked over, try and move them. EDC,try that one.
Q. What does that stand for again? [00:19:28]
ES. Estate Development Committee, With all the houses going on getting fixed, the estate getting fixed. People moving in and out.
Q. So how does that work? [00:19:41]
ES. When they are building their estate, when they are building the houses, if they have any complaints like all the noises, people come and complain about the noises then we have to have meetings with them and say keep the noises down. And they ask if they can come on Saturday and we have to discuss it and say yes or no. Mostly the houses that have been built, if there are any complaints, how they are being built, mostly that.
Q. What’s your role on that committee? [00:20:15]
ES. Just listen, just go and listen and let other people give all the answers. I go along as well.
Interviewer. So it's more because you want to be involved rather than you have any specific role.
ES. Yes I am just a committee member.
Q. Is the way things work now quite different from how things worked when you first moved into the estate? [00:20:41]
ES. I wasn't at the meetings before. From what I hear from before, the people in there didn't have a say in the matters. They were not involved. So they are more involved now and the council listens to them because they have the meetings and talk to all the people and they are more into it.
Q. What’s happening here is quite high profile isn’t it? They’ve knocked two blocks down already, are they going to knock any more down? [00:21:38]
ES. Yes, two more.
Q. When is that due to happen? [00:21:47]
ES. In two years time.
Q. You’ve been on TV, you’re a TV star yourself. Can you tell me a little bit about what happened there? [00:21:52]
ES. [Laughter] Embarrassing.
Q. How did you get involved with that? Alice Burke is the chair of the Nightingale Resident Association, and she was involved because of that but how did you get involved? [00:22:05]
ES. I was on the committee and they wanted to know people that live on the estate and what they think about Nightingale and as I was on the committee, Alice said well everyone is here, they’ll all know. That’s how they came to talk to me, because I was on the committee, l live in Nightingale. The more I thought of it, I wanted to move out because I wanted to move into Seaton, that was why. Who wants to live in Seaton, what they feel like, what do they want to know because okay I’ll try that, because I like it, I like living here.. We get other people that want to move out, I don't blame them really, people who want to live in houses. I was going to go for a house, but I thought I would go to Seaton.
Q. So many people live in flats in London, not just in Hackney, they think a house is what they want. What made you think that you wanted to stay here? Could you have been offered a house, maybe? [00:23:07]
ES. I was, I could have got a house, the new build, but I thought well when you go to a house it will be more noisier because you are going to get kids in the summer, playing outside and my two are big now, they are sixteen and thirteen, they don't need to play outside. And in a flat I think, because you get to know the neighbours and get to know them as well, it is more safer and you have the security guard downstairs. So I thought we have got someone downstairs, it will be safe, no noise, I don't know I felt more safer.
Q. So that was what you were hoping was going to happen when you did move in then. How much has that been the case? [00:24:04]
ES. We have got the security guard and they need to know the number before they come up. And I live with one neighbour at the moment, so it’s nice and quiet.
Q. So there’s hardly anyone living here at the moment? [00:24:27]
ES. No, I have just got one neighbour. On some floors there are two or three and on some floors you’ve got one person. But when we first moved in there was a bit of a hassle, there was rubbish everywhere because no one there would move, They left them outside. So we had to discuss and have the meeting for them to put the rubbish themselves out, not to leave nothing on the landings. But it is not bad, hopefully we will get more. At least it is nice and quiet as you can see.
Q. How many people are there on a floor? You’ve got one other person at the moment but are there other flats on each floor? [00:25:04]
ES. There are four flats on each floor, so I hope I will get to know all of them and as l go up and down on the lift I met some other people and there was like this other man and he goes, I have seen you somewhere. And I go yeah in the lift. I say hello to everyone. There are a couple of Turkish people who moved into this flat. You’ve got two in the even one. There is one, I got to know her. l am getting there.
Q. Are you the sort of person that, because you’re so friendly, people kind of recognize you. Are you the sort of person that gets to know everyone? [00:25:47]
ES. Yes, I try to. I tell them that if there are any problems they can always let me know because what we want to do now is, we are bound to get some mistakes at Seaton Point with paint coming off the walls and this and that, and the damp. We have damp on the balcony. I got something to do a list and let me know and I can tell the council and get to know them even more.
Q. You do that for people because you’re on the committee? [00:26:28]
ES. Yeah.
Q. So what sort of things have gone wrong then? Because when you look at this flat- [00:26:33]
ES. It looks perfect! [Laughter]
Q. [Laughter] For the benefit of the tape, if you look at this flat from right across from the side of Hackney Downs it looks fantastic, it looks brilliant. You can see the other two blocks next to it look really run down. But this block of flats looks absolutely brilliant and even when you get close up it looks really, really good. Tell me what they have done to the original block to make it so different? [00:26:38]
ES. What they have done was, they’ve extensioned. The living room was bigger. What they’ve done was, they took from the living room and gave it to the kitchen. So the kitchen is bigger, the living room is smaller. They made the patio bigger because of the walls. They knocked it down and put the windows right at the edge so they gave more space for the patio. We lost a cupboard. The cupboard in the passage was big, they made it small. The other half, they put the boiler. The bedrooms...lost an inch of the bedrooms as well. The wide bits from the walls for the wires to go in, they put an inch there so when you put the cupboard you can't push it towards the wall, you have to leave an inch. So we lost a bit of space on the bedrooms as well, but it can't be perfect. But it still looks nice because we have got the width. Because in the new build they are making squares. The bedroom is going to be square.
Q. You’ve got central heating now, did you have central heating before? [00:28:36]
ES. No it was hot air, like a square thing on the ceiling and hot air used to come through, nice and warm. This one I put on a timer. It comes on in the morning and comes on at night. If I leave it on all day it is going to be a big heating bill. And the summer is coming so I will be able to turn it off.
Q. So are you happy with the flat? [00:29:05]
ES. Yes, I am happy with it.
Q. We talked a little bit about the consultation process– that the council had asked whether families wanted to be in ground floor flats or houses. But for the people who, like yourself, who decided you wanted to stay in a block of flats, what sort of questions did you get asked about what you were going to get or about what you wanted? [00:29:14]
ES. The kitchen, we chose the kitchen cupboards and we chose the colours we wanted for the bedrooms and the door, I think the balcony doors we chose. So we did have a say in what goes into the building itself.
Q. How did you choose, how did that work? [00:30:05]
ES. They’d done a meeting and they’d bring in colours. So we went downstairs, looked at the colours and chose the cupboards. It’s all downstairs in the project shop, the first one, the colours are still in there.
Q. For other people who are moving in? [00:30:24]
ES. Yeah.
Q. So basically you could have the whole colour scheme in here with certain kitchen doors and in the flat right next door it could be completely different? [00:30:28]
ES. Yes, they are all different.
Q. Is that a good thing? [00:30:41]
ES. It is good that we can choose our own colours. I know they would pick nice colours not horrible colours, but mostly I pick all white and beige. So I had two colours I could have picked, blue or green. So for my daughter I chose green and my son I chose blue.
Q. In terms of things like how they designed the kitchen, did you have any say in that? Did people ask you, or do you know if any other people were asked? [00:31:11]
ES. Yes they checked if we had a cooker, if we had a fridge and they made spaces for the fridge, cooker and washing machines.
Q. Right, so that’s actually your own thing, they’re not fitted into the kitchen? [00:31:28]
ES. No, they just went round it.
Q. Let me get this right, they worked out every kitchen based around what the person who’s moving in has got and they built it accordingly. So even the kitchens in each of the flats are quite apart from the colours, the way that they’re laid out is quite different as well. [00:31:38]
ES. Yes some only had tumble driers so they had to have the space to go in and fridge freezer for them as well. And then we had just a cooker, washing machine and fridge so I just needed three spaces.
Q. Alright, that’s what it’s like in the flat itself. The other thing that you’ve got--when I was walking through here, I noticed that there’s quite a lot of other things to do around here. You were talking about it in 1975, it was just an open flat area for kids. So what’s happened since then? There are clearly buildings here that are used. [00:32:17]
ES. There is one building down there which is computers, you can do computers and a nursery. What they are trying to do now is a music centre. They have got it but they haven't started running it yet. And as you come in that way there is the club at the corner, youth club. But we still need more stuff. More stuff has to be done because the children they don't know what to do, they just lag. That’s why they go about touching cars.
Q. Down the other side there are other things as well, aren’t there? [00:33:25]
ES. The sweet shop
Interviewer. There’s a cafe, there’s an office for boot straps-
ES. The first one is a project shop and the second offices for housing association, for the houses they are building to go and talk to them. And the second one is the chemist and we have a café. It is the work people that are using it now. And then we have a sweet shop. Opposite that is the housing, where any complaints come. Instead of going over to Hodgkin House or Clapton, we have one here. It is better for us. And opposite that we have the big building that will be the music centre, waiting for it to be opened. And then for the work people, if we have anything going wrong they’re going to fix it, they are out there as well. And the computer thing as well.
Q. Okay so there’s quite a lot of facilities around. How long have they been there, are they new or have they been there since the start? [00:34:30]
ES. The computer one has been there for one or two years. The main offices have
been redone up, painted so about three years and the other office, which was the main office, is now an office for the maintenance people. The project shop was a chip shop first, then it was a donate shop, then they turned it into a project shop. So there have been a lot of changes, two or three years all in all.
Q. Were there buildings there before? There’s always been something there or were they used as private shops before? [00:35:46]
ES. I think they were private shops, I forgot what they were. As time goes by, you go blank. The one that was the office on the right, that was a Londis supermarket. It was always getting robbed so the poor man had to go away. He closed it.
Q. So have you got a general store or supermarket on the estate now? [00:36:19]
ES. No, not now we don’t, no. just the sweet shop we have. Dalston market and then there are some shops that open on the corner as you go towards Kingsland. There’s a Turkish shop there, like a little market. So just getting bits of shops opening everywhere. And then we have got Peles.
Q. Tell me about that.
ES. I just forgot the name of the road. A little shop there, newsagents and he sells some stuff as well, food, veg so people go to him as well. But mostly we go to the main supermarket and Dalston market. Or go to Safeways. It would be good to have something here as well.
Q. Do you think as the estate carries on being developed, then shops will open again? Or not? [00:37:18]
ES. They might do, I don't know, because they were saying they might open another shop near the main road so a lot of people come into the estate. But then the estate is just the people that live here. I think as we get the houses being built as well, it will get bigger.
Q. On your TV programme, the thing you were being interviewed about in particular was the lift. Do you want to tell me why they were interviewing you about that? [00:37:52]
ES. Because it was always a mess like they were always dumping things in it. And you had to carry a perfume on you all the time. So they were hoping that when they put cameras in Seaton it would be clean and no one would do nothing. But they still done something because the cameras can't see very well. I think it needs to be put in the middle. So when you go in you can see it point blank. This one is at the side so if you go to the side, he can't see what you are doing. So that is what they done wrong. And they put perfumes and the first day it got pinched. My perfume went away. So I was disappointed about that.
Q. So are you still carrying perfume on you again? [00:38:58]
ES. Yes in my bag. Not fair is it. You still get some people that do it on purpose to see if they can get away with it. And poor Rathbone it has got worse, the lifts.
Q. Is Rathbone one of the blocks? [00:39:20]
ES. That’s the one I was in, I was in Rathbone. That one’s got worse. Hopefully it will improve again. But this one I was hoping it would be better, the lifts would stay clean all the time but I think there are some kids-one or two- that will do it in spite.
Q. Do you think there’s anything anyone can do about that? [00:39:40]
ES. I don't know. What I do is, three o'clock or four o'clock I always press the lift to see if it is clean, so I check it and if I see anything l just go downstairs and tell the security guard to check the camera. But sometimes I go and get cleaning stuff. It is mostly kids I think. I don't know what else we can do. It is a hard one, that one.
Q. Well that’s quite interesting because in the TV programme you were sounding really enthusiastic about the lifts and you really thought it was going to be completely different and that programme was made six months ago? [00:40:10]
ES. Yes, before we moved in
Q. So in that space of time are you actually already starting to find that things aren’t as good? [00:40:30]
ES. Tell me about it.
Q. Is that what’s happening there? [00:40:39]
ES. Yeah.
Q. So in what other ways is that happening? What other things are you noticing that aren’t as good as you were hoping? [00:40:45]
ES. Well first the lift, because we were hoping no one would do anything in it but we still have a couple of kids that have done it and we can’t touch them, so we’re trying to find a way of always checking the lift. Another one, the damp in the balcony. That puts me off as well. And they are trying to do something, they are going to test some windows to see because the windows get misted when the central heating is on. So [ ] you can’t see the outside, it’s constant [ ] they say. So they are going to check some peoples balconies to see what they can do. So hopefully they will resolve it. Other than that it is okay.
Q. What about the playground, that was something that Alice Burke was talking about on that programme? [00:41:36]
ES. When they broke it and they burnt it as well, the kids. They put cameras now so hopefully they won't do it. They will know they are being watched. We’ll have to wait and see. And I can see it from the dustbin windows so I can always go and look.
Q. Nothing’s happened since, nothing like that has happened since the cameras were put in? [00:42:01]
ES. I haven't heard nothing yet, haven't heard. We will see.
Interviewer. Well with people like you around then- [Laughter] A combination of the cameras and the-
ES. [Laughter] Keep an eye, keep a watch.
Q. Well that’s kind of moving on to one of the other things I wanted to talk about. If you look at the history of the estate since 1970, it started out all nice and new but then it went downhill. Once it starts to go downhill, then people- [00:42:22]
ES. -give it a bad reputation.
Q. Yeah and then it gets worse and so on. Can you see that happening again or do you think there’s enough positive- [00:42:45]
ES. I think it might improve. With the houses being done and new people moving in, it might just improve. We will have to wait and see what the future brings. If the kids are okay and not like little things that break windows or play football in the streets and leave the cars alone. I think it is the parents as well really because if you are going to live in new houses you have to watch what the kids are doing. Out the window you can see what they are doing. So will have to wait and see and keep our fingers crossed.
Q. That’s something else that you’re talking about. If you live in a block of flats you have kind of a responsibility to all the other people that live there. Has that happened at all since you’ve moved in here? Or is it any more than it was or less than it was? [00:43:41]
ES. Don't know, I do look at the people and I do try and see if l can help and I tend to look at the cars as well because we put our cars there. If I see anything mysterious or someone trying to do something, I shout out. And see what other people do as well. I always try and keep an eye out. I always check the lifts that the lifts are working and two days ago when I came home there was this little kid playing with the lift. Pressing the lift, the lift doors open and going in. What are you doing? Nothing. Why are the lift doors open, leave alone. He goes he is waiting for someone. So I said go up and go and knock on the door, don't just stand there. You can't go too heavy on them can you. There was this other man, he told them as well. Don't play with the lift and he went out.
Q. Well you obviously make a real effort to help out, not just by going to the estate but by looking out for things. Are there other people who live here who do the same sort of things? [00:45:19]
ES. There was this couple, an old man and woman, they live on the second floor. I know they are elderly but they still look out. And I think there is another man on the seventh floor. So there is a couple of us that go to the meetings and look out.
Q. One other thing you talked about when you moved in was that everyone has a sense of pride of being in Nightingale, this beautiful new estate. Do you think that’s coming back, that feeling? You’re in a nice new block, how do you feel about that? [00:46:02]
ES. I love it and happy I have moved in. It is nice and cosy and all clean and you feel it is nice, I am happy that I am living here. And people are looking forward to move and then we will know what we will be doing. We will be settled. But it is going to take time, we are going to wait and see. And the houses are getting done as well. So they are looking forward for that. So at the moment they are waiting and want to move in. I hope it stays like that and stay happy.
Q. Hackney council is always on the news at the moment for being a failing council, is that how people see it here or do they see a different side? [00:47:08]
ES. Some people, when we have more mistakes on the house, they do feel let
down because we have waited so long for this flat. A couple of years, they took their time and when you see the mistakes that happen in some place they are not happy.
Q. So what happened to the people who lived in the blocks that were knocked down? [00:47:43]
ES. They went outside of Hackney because you have a choice where you want to go. And some of them went into most of them went into Rathbone and Pamell because they wanted to come into Seaton and some of them they want the new build so they go into Moorgate House so they just spread out and some are going to Highbury for the new build in Highbury where the waterworks are. They went there. So all went where they wanted to go.
Q. Is there a feeling that they’re all looking forward to being back together again? [00:48:28]
ES. Yeah I think they are, they are waiting. Some are pissed off because they have been waiting so long. They are waiting and they are not settled are they.There was this man, he had boxes in his room and he was fed up because he was living from a box.
Q. Even if someone’s been living in Highbury for two years, where would you say they would consider that? [00:49:06]
ES. Those on Highbury they want to stay there, they are not coming back. But the people in Per bury Estate they are going to come back to Nightingale. And then a lot of people went to Moorgate house and Rathbone.
Q. Well you’ve obviously stayed here for quite a long time, you’ve also obviously moved around a few times in your time here. You’ve probably got a nice video recording of you moving in as well. So that’s obviously something that’s really important to you, that you’ve come here now and this is what you’ve wanted. I know it’s perhaps a bit of a strange question, but do you think you will ever move again? [00:49:41]
ES. I don't know I think I will probably a couple of years later I will probably want to move.
Q. Why is that? [00:50:18]
ES. Because I only need two bedrooms because my son he wants to move out when he is older. He wants to be a singer. He is going to get rich and then he can buy me a house. I probably want to go near the seaside or country. I don't really want to stay in one place forever. You want a change of scenery, you want a change of scenery. And I always love the countryside. So I say, when you are a singer or you are rich, get me a lovely mansion with a swimming pool. That is a dream come true one day, we will see.
Q. Ok but if you had to stay in Hackney, what- [00:51:05]
ES. Oh, I would stay here, I want to stay in Seaton, nice and quiet.
Q. Are there any other things that you think are important to talk about because I don’t know what sort of work is going on around here? I might have missed some areas. [00:51:17]
ES. I am just hoping they will have a gym or something on the estate for the kids. I
discussed that as well.
Q. So how would that happen? Say you identify something that you would like to see, what do you do about it then? [00:51:48]
ES. Try and get a hall or something or have a hall built.
Q. Who would do that? [00:52:03]
ES. The council.
Q. How do you get the council to do that for you? [00:52:17]
ES. The meetings that we have, discuss it, say we want something for the kids on the estate because they get bored. Ask for a hall and see if one can be built. Because they had a computer thing built and the nursery closed down. And they had a nursery done for the school. At the moment they are using the nursery for the housing thing. So hopefully we can have a hall for the kids to do gym in it. Hard job though. We are going to try and discuss what is going to be done at Seaton point. Where there is a space. So we will see what can be done. Shame we can't do a swimming pool for swimming every day. Good exercise.
Interviewer. Well, I haven’t got any more questions so I think we’ll conclude the interview there. Thank you very much.
ES. Ok, you’re welcome.
[00:53:38] END OF INTERVIEW