Oral History- Amy Quartey-Papfio
Object
Audio file
Object number
2026.11
Description
[00:00:14] Amy’s personal background and childhood spent in Ghana and her move to England to become a nurse.
[00:03:24] Arrival to the UK and time spent in Harrogate
[00:07:08] Nursing training, experience with homesickness, the finishing of her nurse training and time spent in Gloucester.
[00:08:44] Working night duty in Hospitals and travelling with friends.
[00:11:51] Move to London and experience working in different hospitals in the city, and her return to Ghana after the death of her father.
[00:15:32] Housing struggles, leading to her move to Hackney.
[00:21:08] Gascoyne Estate and her work.
[00:24:17] Retirement and community work, her sewing and baking.
[00:26:38] Sewing face masks during the COVID Pandemic, setting up her sewing group with Derek and Alana in the Gascoyne Estate.
[00:28:48] Family in Ghana and the UK,, issues with the medical system in Ghana.
[00:33:51] Grandfather’s [William Benjamin Bograph] legacy and father’s life as a pharmacist in Ghana.
[00:43:29] Independence in Ghana, Ghanaian political coup and ongoing struggles over power in Ghana.
[00:50:03] Reasons for her return to the UK and talking about the GLC.
[01:07:33] Photos and sewing history, talking about dresses she made and how she learned to sew from her mother.
[01:10:49] Photo consent, entry form signing and conversations with Derek.
[00:03:24] Arrival to the UK and time spent in Harrogate
[00:07:08] Nursing training, experience with homesickness, the finishing of her nurse training and time spent in Gloucester.
[00:08:44] Working night duty in Hospitals and travelling with friends.
[00:11:51] Move to London and experience working in different hospitals in the city, and her return to Ghana after the death of her father.
[00:15:32] Housing struggles, leading to her move to Hackney.
[00:21:08] Gascoyne Estate and her work.
[00:24:17] Retirement and community work, her sewing and baking.
[00:26:38] Sewing face masks during the COVID Pandemic, setting up her sewing group with Derek and Alana in the Gascoyne Estate.
[00:28:48] Family in Ghana and the UK,, issues with the medical system in Ghana.
[00:33:51] Grandfather’s [William Benjamin Bograph] legacy and father’s life as a pharmacist in Ghana.
[00:43:29] Independence in Ghana, Ghanaian political coup and ongoing struggles over power in Ghana.
[00:50:03] Reasons for her return to the UK and talking about the GLC.
[01:07:33] Photos and sewing history, talking about dresses she made and how she learned to sew from her mother.
[01:10:49] Photo consent, entry form signing and conversations with Derek.
Associated Person
Amy Quartey-Papfio (Subject of)
On display?
No
Inscription
Q. So, just for the sake of the recording, I'm going to say my name is Rebecca and I'm doing an interview for Hackney Museum and it's the 2nd of November today, isn't it? [00:00:08]
Amy Quarey-Papfio [APQ] . Yeah.
Q. Um, and could you start by telling me your full name, uh, where you were born and when you were born? I don't have to share that if you don't want to, but it's just record. [00:00:014]
AQP. Um, my name is Amy Quarey Papfio. By the way, everybody know me as Amy, you know. And I was born in 19 22nd October 1943 in Ara, Ghana. That used to be um the Gold Coast, you know, the colonial times. Yeah.
Q. Wonderful. And could you tell me a little bit about your, your childhood in Ghana? [00:00:47]
AQP. Mhm. Well, at that time children start school at six.
Yeah. So, primary school and then you go to secondary school if your parents can afford to pay, you know. I went to a boarding school and when I had my those days they call it GCE. When I passed my GCE um I wanted to do nursing. So I applied to the um to do nursing but the reply I got was well that that was their system at that time. It will be advertised. So when you see the advert before you can, you know, apply for it. I did that before and they said oh I have to wait till it's advertised.
So I was talking to my dad and he said well you can go to England you know because at that time my elder brother and sister were already here brother doing medicine and my other sister doing nursing in Hamisha but she came here um when they had the common games cuz she was doing um, oh you see high jumping something like that you know
[00:02:37] So while he was here my father arranged you know for her to stay to do her dancing cuz she wanted to do nursing as well. And so I went to the appropriate place where you have to if you're going abroad to study, you know, and the whole thing took about a year, you know. So within that time I applied to work because I couldn't stay and um I was put to the post office accounts branch. So I worked there nearly a year and a half while I was waiting for my you know everything to go through.
AQP.[00:03:24] It's all go through the Ghana government and the British government. Um when I apply they call me for a written test. You pass the text and then you go for interview and from then on you know it's between your embassy and the British embassy. So when everything was done, you know, I got the letter, I had my passport and I arrived here the 26th of October 1968, 3 days after my 25th birthday, you know, in Harrogate. But before I left, I know my brother was here, but you know, you have no knowledge of the geographical here, you know. So I wasn't sure whether I would see them, but it happened that my sister was living in Amisham, my brother was in Bristol, you know, and I end up in Harrogate. Even though I chose Harrogate Hospital, I have no idea where I was going. But the um British Council was very good at that time, you know, cuz I remember when I reached Heathrow airport, there was somebody there waiting for me with my name on, you know. Then he took me in the car, drive me all the way.
[00:05:06] And I was looking cuz all the buildings look the same. So we end up in uh Charing Cross Hospital station and he asked me if I got money. I said, "Well, I got traveler's check." So I gave him the traveler's check. How much was it? Said £28 was. So he changed it, bought a train ticket for me and put me on the train. said, "Oh, when you get to the other end, somebody else will be waiting for you." And as I got there, sure enough, there was a man, you know, waiting for me. put me in the car straight to the hospital, you know, to the nurse's home and then it uh sister came out, you know, welcome me in, show me to my room, which you know, your first year you share room with another and he called my then roommate, introduced me and and it was good. You know the next next day she call the home sister call one of the nurses who I think she already getting there to finish her course took me shopping like winter time you know it's getting to winter then bought all the things I need you know for winter and that was it. You know, since I enjoyed the um but funny enough in the beginning I was a bit homesick especially against my mom cuz she said how long are you going to be there?
AQP. [00:07:08] I said mom don't worry I only take 4 years you know after the 3 years I wait for experience and come back I'm still here you know but it was a good experience even though um because most of the patient there were from the north so maybe they're not used to black people so you get a few people that don't want you touch them, you go to wash them, said, "Oh, you more dirtier than me. Go and wash yourself, you know." But I had a lot of, you know, this when you go there, you going to make this and you go, my dad said, you know, while you're there, just concentrate on it. Finish your course and come back. You know, don't take any notice of whatever, you know, people say to you and all that. So it didn't really bother me because I've already know this is what I'm going to you know experience then. So but I enjoyed it and after that, finished my nursing course because while you're studying you go through different you know and I was much interested in orthopedic you know so I went to Gloucester and do one year orthopedic training diploma.
AQP.[00:08:44] And I applied to do night duty because I like to go around you know and you know when you're doing day duty you don't have much time you only I think those days we do you have one day off one half day and a day off you know. So when you do night you have more time to you know go around it. And I had a Chinese friend where we share room from the beginning and we became very you know close. So when we have our because we on the same set we get our holidays at the same time. So we go around. We went to Scarborough. We went to Cambridge Ely. Yeah. Because you know to pick fruits, apples, strawberries and…but the only thing I didn't like was living in the tent with so many people and then you get up in the morning, go in the shower, you know, and but it was an experience, you know. And you work all day and they give you four shillings. But at least you don't pay for the tent, you know. And they give us food as well. But I enjoyed it. I can say.
AQP.[00:10:15] And then when I finish the orthopedic uh maybe if I stay in Gloucester
I would have no um Harrogate cuz I enjoy Hargate more than Gloucester. Mhm. Gloucester was more or less farming. You know, even not far from the hospital, there's a ground where they see the cows grazing and all that. And when night duty, you can't sleep. You can hear them go. For one thing, you can go to the farm and buy a whole chicken, you know, buy your vegetables and, you know, so fresh. you can just I want that chicken and they you know do it for you and atmosphere was good because most of the nurses in both places were all foreigners you know from some from the western days some from different parts of Africa you know but we all got on well you got some because some of them nurses is don't live in the nurse's home, you know. So, it looked like the nurse's home were all for the, the foreign, but we got on well, but sometimes you get, you know, because everybody is not the same. But what can you do?
AQP. [00:11:51] So I have to s- and I think my sister moved to London.So when I have my holiday I come to spend with her and she takes me places. So I got to know London, said I like to live here instead of the countryside. So I applied an orthopedic hospital in um Hampstead but then they when I arrived they didn't put me on orthopedic ward they put me on the gy- ward
and I didn't like it. So I went to the matron and I said look I applied to work on the orthopedic ward I've just done the course you know said oh don't worry we moved to uh that time it was in um New End hospital I don't know whether you heard about it.
Q. New End? [00:13:06]
AQP. New End in Hamstead way I think it's a it's a home now but then it used to be uh you know so when uh the hospital that that time they were building the hospital itself she said so don't worry when we move to the new place you know we put you on the you know your proper ward but I still wasn't you know so I was looking through a magazine and I saw um, uh Stanmore Orthopedic Hospital. I said, "Oh yeah." No. First I applied to some hospital in the city somewhere. It's very – one of these big hospitals. And oh, they build a new um place for for nurses, you know, like a nurses home and all that. Then I apply for it. The one references obviously will be from my that you know matron and when she got the letter she just push it away you know because she didn't want me to to leave but she said no when you go to the new you know the new hospital it will be different so she didn't give me the reference. So I didn't hear from them for a long time. So, all right. I wrote to them again to find out why they didn't, you know, reply. Then they told me, well, we didn't get any reference from your previous employer, you know. So, I went to her. I said, well, why did you do that? Because I want to, you know, get on with things. So, I apply again to Stanmore. But this time, I didn't put the previous in the hospital for for reference. And I got a job, you know. So when I went to her with my resignation, look, I'm leaving and I'm going to Stanmore Hospital cuz that's a proper orthopedic, you know. And I was in um Stanmore for I think 2 and 1/2 years. Mhm.And my dad was my mom died. I didn't go.
AQP. [00:15:32] So exactly the following year my dad too died. So I said I'm not going two weeks and come back. So I resigned you know and and I stayed nearly a year you know and I came back and that was tough cuz then I have no um accommodation proper accommodation. I was living with relatives, sister, friends, you know, here and there. And all that time my name was on brain cancer because around Kilburn, Neasden, you know, even Barnet all the, you know, the boroughs my name was there for, but because you're single, you don't want to know. And I got somebody said, "Oh, why don't you try the GLC then?" So I went to an office somewhere in Wilsden, fill the form in and all that. And it took a year and a half when I almost given up. I said, "Oh, I'm fed up with this. My dad is gone. My mom is gone. I've done my training. I can go home and, you know, find a job." And just then I had a letter to come and view a flat now near Hackney. Fair enough. I used to see about six going to Kensal Rise, you know, from Hackney Wick to Kensal Rise, but I have no idea where Hackney was. So I got on the bus all the way down here and I went around here.
AQP. [00:17:24] I asked somebody where Harrowgate road was because the caretaker flat is addressing Harrowgate and nobody knows right on this road at the top there. I remember oh no. So I went round run. Oh. So I have to all this time I walk around the you know the building. So I went in that day was so cold snow was on the ground. I knock at the door. This man opened it. So I gave him the letter said oh hang on a minute. He went inside came back and took me to the flat. We climb up. Oh third floor. By that time I was young. So yeah, he went then he couldn't open the door because he got the wrong key. I was so disappointed. So now you have to come back. Okay. So I went home and I think 2 weeks after I got another letter and this time I know where I'm going. So I came there, he took me upstairs and when he opened the door, the whole world I said, "How long are anybody living here?" It look like the flats been empty for a long time. Part of the window glass is broken. There's no heating. There's a bunker on the corridor. They're full of coal and the cold fire in the sitting room. But in the bedroom, no heating. There's no heating in the bedroom.
AQP. [00:18:59] The little money I had, I went around looking for um heater. Then I went to the office said well there's no I mean the caretaker when he opened the door he didn't you know he just you know went in and he went out so I'm sure he he wasn't even aware that there's a window that was no glass in there and it took from December 17th to middle of May before they fix the window and then they put electric heater in the bedroom in the corner where you can't put a bed there you so it was very awkward but I was determined to make it a home and I'm still here I'm still dead you when I was ready I rip all the when you put your hand there so because they bend the coal so you know the suit.
AQP.[00:20:18] It was so dark in because the wallpaper was something brownish and over the years it's got a bit with the suit from the coal and all that. I settle in there and I'm here.
Q. When when was that? [00:20:38]
AQP. I think the exhibition was 1981. Does that sound right? Well, when I move him here, Derek wasn't around. Mhm, but when he moved in on I think it's on the fourth floor probably he was interested to know. So, he started asking questions and all that that how he, you know, it came about. So, gradually he build up all the information he got, you know, to do that exhibition.
Q. So, do you So, do you know what year you moved to the Gascoyne? [00:21:08]
AQP. Yeah. Yeah. 81.
Interviewer. 81. Yeah. I just wanted to check.
AQP. December 17th. December ‘81.
Q. Wow. You've got a very good memory for exact date, which is really impressive. Um Oh, that's amazing. And what was your first sort of impressions of Hackney then? Apart from when you got- you couldn't find where you were going, it's cold. What about the area? [00:21:34]
AQP. Well, at that time because I was so excited now I got my own place, you know, I can go have my own key. I can go and come, you know, but the people that were living there. Most of them were, you know, welcoming. They see you say, "Oh, hello." You know, because they know who knew maybe they know they recognize the new faces. So, and then I think I apply I said now I can have a permanent job you know and then get on with like and I -
Went to the job center and they said this thing that I was looking because it's only nursing I know you know and that time is oh Hackney hospital so I apply for a night duty cuz I need time to, you know, sort out the flat and all that. And I went for interview and I got a job, you know, and within from December up to the May, you know, cuz I remember the very week I start working, that's when I had a letter from the GSC that they coming to fix the window. But before that, I put it cardboard with cello tape, you know, around it. And I've already had my curtains and everything. So, Woolworth’s;p was down in Mare Street where Iceland is now, you know, and I went in there and bought the the oil electric um heater and I sit here. the heat. I was your back is cold, but at least you know your be because I have no idea how to you know set the fire for the the cold thing and because the walls were all as all this stuff was going to I was going to bring you know breathe in. So I wasn't going to use the cold and then I put carpet down there. The heat will sp the carpet as well, you know. So I didn't use the but after a time I got rid of it, you know.
[00:24:17] And now I build a cupboard around that and to make the place you know cozy for
myself and I don't think you know well if I want to move I would have moved but you know I'm staying there too. Mm- cuz even if I want to move now, I don't know where I will go to start all over again. You know, I got involved with whatever is going on here. So I don't think it would be nice to move to go and start all over again. Maybe I didn't realize it much because I start working, you know. So you would night duty to in and out in and out. You meet people. But I got more involved after I retired. You know at 60 when I retired. Oh what you going to do is just I said don't worry I'll find things to do. Now I bake, I sew you know even those two things I was doing at home before I came here to do nursing. So it's just like a continuate sh thing. Now every summer I bake a whole lot of cake for the Westfield. Come know, um festival, the church, church, you know, Christmas bazaar, summer fair. I bake all the cakes you and I enjoy doing it and I sew most of my clothes and all but funny I said when I I retire I'll have more time to well I have time to do other things but sewing it's gone down even when the co was we set up a you know in here So you know me I don't know whether you met Alana. No I don't think I have.
[00:26:38] Yeah he she works with um Derek to manage this place, you know, she set up in here few sewing machines. So anybody who can sew, we had about three, four people. So we sew the the-the mask for the community 5 days a week. Wow. be coming. Yeah. Until you know everything. I'm sure there's a whole lot of some, of you know. Oh, yeah. Wow. It's lovely to keep it up as well on the wall. Yeah. Remember what you did. It's lovely. Yeah. I like to keep at it, you know, get involved in things going on cuz, you know, when you getting old, you sitting that makes you more, you know, right?
Interviewer. Keep on going.
AQP. Yeah. And the 22nd of October, I celebrated my 80th. Yeah.
Interviewer. That's amazing.
AQP. Yeah.
Q. So did you celebrate with people on the the Gascoyne or- [00:27:59]
AQP. No, you know St. John of Jerusalem?
Interviewer. Yeah
AQP. That's my church. So I decided well, I have you know, lunch with my church family and it was great.
Interviewer. Yeah it's wonderful.
AQP. Yeah it was good. Everybody was making a fuss of me.Yeah. No…
Q. I think sorry I think when you first did I think I wrote it down as Haringay Hospital. Was it Harrogate? [00:28:32]
AQP. Harrogate - Harrogate Hospital.
Q. And when so what year was it was 1968, wasn't it that you first moved? And you said to did your your brother and sister did they stay in Britain or did– [00:28:48]
AQP. Uh my sister got married, had two kids and she went back home not two years ago she passed away yeah or 3 years. My brother married um a lady she he met in um Edinburgh University. So they also got married, had four children. And after my dad died, he decided to go home. So they all went home. But things were hard at that time because children growing up school and-and so the wife decided to come back with the kids you know to finish their school and that destroyed their, you know, marriage. She stay here in she um Belfast but she's an Irish.
[00:30:00] So the children now they all grow up. I think the first boy he settled in Ghana where he was here for a while then he went back and settled in Ghana. He's the only one settled in Ghana. And the last one and the second born the second born is living in Opentine. See, he did some engineering or something like that. Him and the last one. The last one lives in um Northampton. They have only one girl, Alison. And she became a doctor too. She's still working. Yeah. And because the mom too is old, so they need somebody to live near to keep an eye on her. Yeah. And he also, funny enough, he had dementia. The last time I saw him was 2018 when one of my nieces was getting married. And as soon as I when I was talking to him, he was talking about, you know, things that gone old. some things evil is even telling me I have no idea you know and I realized you know cuz he wasn't that old I think he 88 yeah you know and it looked like he just went downhill because the people there uh they didn't really understand what was and to be honest the medical system over there is next to nothing, you know.
AQP. [00:32:00] So he eventually died. He was ill for a while and then he died. So, but the ex-wife is still July – the second son celebrated his 60th.
Interviewer. Wow.
AQP. And we all went and the mother and the rest of his siblings, they all came. So, we all met together and cuz to you know because you speak on the phone but you don't see them.
Interviewer. Yeah.
AQP. Yeah. So it was nice for everybody you know all the family and his friends because he he started when he started university in Ghana and then he came back to finish up here but now they only go on holidays you know because the elder brother is there. So well I can say I'm lucky to belong to you know a good family that really serious about education you know and I think it's all spring up from my granddad because he was the first Ghanaian doctor. He trained in Edinburgh and somewhere else. But he gave the British government a hard time when he went back home,you know. Yeah. Reading his history a bit.
Q. Do you want to talk a little bit about that if you're happy to or..? [00:33:51]
AQP. Yeah
Q. So, what was your grandfather's name? [00:33:55]
AQP. Um, William Benjamin Bograph here you know he be he came from a big family too who eventually became doctors and lawyers and teachers and my grand my father's sisters three of them became teachers you know in the one that was named I was named after she was the only one that went, you know, like clerical work, but all of them had teaching and all sorts. But uh cuz my dad always says that your brain is your future, you know. So if you and they don't believe in like clerical work, you have to be a profession, you know. So they push us all to and I'm really grateful or glad to see the people the you know the siblings before you know after us they also taking over you know going through the
same you know road cuz my youngest brother he's also got a daughter who is a doctor. So maybe, maybe we got you know the caring genes.
[00:35:42] Everybody wants to care for something you know somebody orI got a brother in Germany. He did engineering. So he married a German lady. So he's still there. Had four four kids. They all grown up now. So come summer, they all go and visit, but they don't want to live there. The country is no good now. You know, it's no good. So we can only go on holidays and then come back where we settled.And we had a you know a good family union when we able we get together and talk about things and to me that's how it should be really you But uh sometimes it doesn't go that way. And I've got another sister too. She's um 2 years older than me. She also married well, her husband, they married at home. The husband came here to study. So she joined him. They had two children and the marriage didn't work. So well the husband is dead now but and then she got sick. I think something to do with her spine. So now she living in one of these um residential homes. one of these residential homes in uh Wembley. So I visit every now and then if I mostly she rather phones me all the time you know but I visit when I can in summer time go when we from here going there it takes about 2 hours.
Interviewer.[00:38:22] Mhm.
AQP. You know you got a train somewhere and then you have to join the bus you know to get there. Maybe I spend an hour and a half or two to come home. But she phones all the time and the children do visit. So she lived in Kilburn just by the Kilburn station. And then when she couldn't manage on her own, her husband died. She couldn't manage on her own. Yeah. So that's my life.
Q. And you sort of mentioned earlier that um so obviously is given a long time back to sort of when, when you were a child, but it–was it was the Gold Coast. It was pre-independence. Do you sort of have any memories of um independence or life before that when it was okay? [00:39:33]
AQP. Well, mish mash really because my-my dad was a pharmacist and is a government controls everything. So they push you around like he will be transferred to certain part you know maybe 2, 3, 4, years and then I could go another place again everything packed up you know so like we were changing schools here and there until he decided well this is not good enough you know so we all have to stay one place then on holidays you know we have So we end up in boarding schools, you know, especially when we reach secondary level, we all end up in boarding schools cuz otherwise you'll be changing all the time. So we all come home when the holiday. But not everybody can afford to do that, you know. So I said, "Well, he had to really work hard, you know, to make sure all of us, you know, cuz in all we he had 13 of us."
Interviewer. Oh, wow. It's a lot to look after!
AQP. 13 of us. So mostly spent all his life, you know, working for the children. It's a shame you know and then you have to if you are like a senior pharmacist you have to visit other places to check whatever was going on.
[00:41:14] So one day he was coming home and the truck just cuz the roads are not like here you know you can see where you going sometime you can drive and I used to be so scared like when we go home and in like in the night in maybe 5:00 6:00 we all packed up in the car you know and all you see is trees here and there the road, no lights, only your car lights showing you where you're going. I used to get so scared and he was driving somewhere like and a big truck just, you know, collide with him. Apparently, he was going the wrong way, you know. I think that time it was um left hand drive. So he had some injuries that really didn't you know leave him and well but it took a while then you know those days they don't tell you you know like here you can ask what's wrong with me they tell you this that that you know and then when you die; the postmortem. They can tell you exactly even now you pay money for small things but there's no guarantee they'll give you the right you know they just put something on paper because who's going to question it you know so he died early I think, 66 yeah.
Q. And that's when you went home for a year? [00:43:04]
AQP. Yeah. All his siblings living longer than him.
Q. Yeah? [00:43:14]
AQP. Yeah. Look at me. 80 years old. I can't believe it.
Q. Do you remember? Do you remember independence at all when that happened? Was there–[00:43:29]
AQP. Yes, I did. I did. I remember. We have to go to a park somewhere um on a march, you know, for the um but before that, you know, uh what they call it, empire day, we go on a march and I remember they gave us when the queen, you know, was made queen, we had
to go on a march, and give everybody a cup with the you know the queen you say but what happened to that you know I know we had a cupboard that we all put in there we don't use it you know so as you grow up you know you forgot about this so the other day you know when the queen- that celebration we had I said when the king was put up now I said I was I wonder what happened to those cups we got, you know, when the queen came on all those years, you know, maybe it's broken or you people don't value these things like they do here, you know, you keep them as a memento and all that.
Q. Like a ceramic cup? [00:44:54]
AQP. No, proper, proper like a um ch– you know China with the Queen. Yeah, we always go on a march for even, we celebrate May Day, you know, with the pole thing, we dance around it and all that. Yeah, I remember all that. But then the independence came which wasn't you know you know something going on but you're not really you know into it. Now from the beginning I think Yes. Just before I finished secondary school. Yeah. I think 57 we had independence.
Interviewer. [00:45:39] Yeah.
AQP. But things didn't change much. Then everything went pear shaped cuz some didn't like the president or the prime minister or what they conspired and um I remember there was a war in, is it Vietnam? Yeah, there was around that time. Yeah. And he went to Hanoi and that was the end of it. They stage a coup, you know, and he end up in Guinea, you know, the prime minister in Guinea then took him in, you know, give him asylum there and he died, you know, and Ghana has never been the same again. People come and go and the more they come and go the more the country goes down. It's nothing there now. Selfishness and corruption. Greed. They always borrow money from foreign. You know, the other day someone said one day, now they’re more into Chinese. I said one day we hear you know the Chinese people will take over and we go back to colonial time again. Yeah. I hope not. People are really struggling. Yeah.
[00:47:27] No jobs. All the I remember when the first P then came, you make sure you know even school, primary school was free education and all that. Only when you get to secondary school if you're lucky uh you get like a scholarship. So, you maybe you pay half the fees and you get books and all that but not anymore. And there was a time I heard that you only go to school half day. You got the same building and more people. So they have to have day people and afternoon people. You don't have full day like you go from here like from 8:00 to 3. You have to divide it into. And if your parents can't afford to pay the fees or buy books, pencil and all that, then you don't have, you know, you don't get to go to school. It's really sad.
[00:48:51] And you got all these private people setting up their own school. They only taking the money from people, you know, and you finish and you haven't learned anything to know about the university. You used to be you had a good university. Yeah. So if you have money and you want to go to university, you have to get out of the country cuz you won't get much education there even though you pay the money as everybody want to get you know get out of there and every year they celebrating independence. I said I don't want to know in March the March 6 the embassy here. Oh my goodness.
It's really sad.
Q. It sounds like you you feel very positively about the education you had. Did you study nursing in Ghana before coming here? [00:50:03]
AQP. No – all the I wanted to but I couldn't you know, cuz I have to wait and my dad said why don't you you know go to England and do it if this is what you want to do was the same for your siblings that the opportunity was in Britain and not back in Ghana to study yeah well at that time it wasn't bad but it deteriorated all the time so if you want to study you have to get out and then when you finish there's nothing there to go for you know you've got the knowledge but you can't you know implement it so like you me I never really think oh I'm not coming back you know cuz I knew if my dad was still alive because he never stopped nagging my elder brother when he finish his medicine you know he oh you finished your PhD you have to come back and work and help the country and all that you know but then because he's I'm sure if he had married then he would have gone you knowso I said well if when I finish everything and I was if my dad was still alive he'll be nagging me to come back you know so in a sense even me I didn't you know make up my mind I'm going and I'm not but at that time the country was okay you know but then over the years it went down, down, down oh I was really lucky when I decided oh I can't get nowhere to settle down I'll just go back you know and just at that time GLC saved me.
AQP. [00:52:04] So every time I hear um that man's name is his name Livingston?
Interviewer. Ken Livingston–
AQP. Livingston! So that was the time he was, you know, running the GLC. So I was lucky to escape. So even if you work there and you retire, that's another thing to get your pension. So people are struggling my sister when she went and she worked there until she retired but I don't think she got much pension you know. Then she something was wrong with her eyes. I can’t think what it is uh, cataracts, she had operation and she end up going blind.
Q. So, do you think it's fair to say– and what you told me that you, you came and you thought I'll be here for 4 years, but you trained, you had all that knowledge and there just was no opportunity for you if you went back? That's why you decided to stay longer? [00:53:42]
AQP. No. No. Oh, you okay. Funny enough that when my dad died and I went that was a time my eyes open that you know because that time the country just gone what I knew it wasn't the same you know I said no cuz I got when I was training there was another girl there as soon as she English. She got married. I think the the husband did law and you know where if the government sponsor you and you finish your course, you have to go back. So she went back with the husband. And she applied to work in the general hospital cuz the system here is different from there, you know. So she couldn't fit in but they doing what she wouldn't do like you know here system you know, and they were making fun of her you know but when she got fed up she resigned and went to private sector, they have private sector there, and she still didn't so she stopped working all together. I don't know what she did then after cuz I met her said oh she couldn't work there because what they do over there is
different from what she's been trained to do, you know.
[00:55:19] And I'm sure the doctors feel the same because even my brother after a while he set his own, you know, private business cuz she couldn't work with the government. See, because if a doctor make a mistake, who's going to question it? They give you the wrong diagnosis, who's going to question it? So, even the people living there, it's a risk. It's a risk. So, you know, one of my aunties, she fell in the bathroom, but she was a big woman, you know. So she just stay in bed and I'm sure it's pneumonia she got, you know, and she was rushed to private hospital. They put her on the bed straight away. They put a drip on. So I said, "What kind of drip?" you know, and you have to pay money before they you don't know what they putting in you. The woman was have high temperature and all that. They didn't to me they didn't pick up what was wrong with her and she died. Who's going to question? So if you are ill and you go in your hospital and you come out, it's your luck. Cuz when you know his son was telling me, I said, "Oh, I'm sure she got pneumonia." You know very sure she had pneumonia you know but who you going to ask you know even postmortem you can't guarantee that you pay money for it they just write something on the paper for you to oh what this is what the bosses. You know, even not long ago, another relative
I got to know he had diabetes.
[00:57:45] He has some sore on his leg that wasn't healing, you know, and there was they they decide, oh, they need to cut the leg off, you know, and then somebody else who came said, "Oh, no, you know, he's healing." So, they left it. So every two weeks he have to go to the the hospital for them to dress this saw and up and out of the blue he just went so bad and he died. So I'm sure it's septicemia. So I was asking when they did they do postpart the you know the death certificate this is what they put on a stomach ulcer or something you know so it's dangerous now if you're ill and they believe oh the general hospital because they haven't got the equipments and things you know even extra. You have to wait so long. You go and they tell you, "Oh, the X-ray machine is not working. You have to come back." Meanwhile, you’re ill, it’s sad.
[00:59:19] And I said, "Oh, during my granddad's time when they were fighting, because apparently the the white people that were there doing the same job, they getting more pay than the local people. They can't hold any positions. They have to be yes men all the time." and he was fighting to, you know, get it sorted. A group of people they you know they form like a a committee or something came all the way to London here you know to fight it out in the end you end up getting OB or something one of these uh yeah so all that fight they did you know the old people fight to get the country back. It's a lo in battle. You know, their efforts were now doesn't wear anything. Even he left the civil service and set up his own practice. Meanwhile, he went on doing politics, thinking to me, thinking to make the country better. If you see what's going on now, it was just a waste of time then. Yeah. But then nothing stays the same, you know, changes.
Q. Is there anything I haven't asked you about that you want to tell me about that you think is important to say on record or share? [01:01:23]
AQP. Not really. But we you know my dad my granddad I had I've got bits and pieces of his life you know when he left here finish his um medicine she mar he married here and apparently the the wedding took place in St. B's hospital you know the little chapel they got there?
Interviewer. Yeah.
AQP. Yeah. And I didn't even when I was working with um Hackney we used to go there for study days and all that and I never knew, you know, way after I was so excited. Oh one day I'll go down there you know and go in the chapel and see where he's still to you know sign the register and all that. Yeah. And then he did so much and and I think he also died young. He was in his 60s something 60 something he died and those after keeping up
Interviewer. Sounds like you spent a lot of time then living in the nursing homes.
AQP. Yeah.
Q. For for quite up until like throughout the ' 70s, would you say? [1:03:08]
AQP. Yeah. Uh cuz when I came to back to London, Hamstead, New End, New End Hospital is part of it. There was a you had a nurse's home there, you know. So I think I spent either year or two there and a friend of mine had a a like a flat and but she did dress making and all that. So when she decide to go back home, she's here now. Yeah. You have to run by.
Interviewer 2. [01:04:00] Amy. Amy. Look, there's your bag. Yeah. I don't know what you got in it, but you got your valuables. Sorry.
AQP. All right.
Interviewer. No problem. No, no, no.
Interviewer 2. And there's more things outside. Yeah.
AQP. Right. Thank you. Yeah.
Q. So, your friend had a flat? [1:04:12]
AQP. Yeah. So, when she was going back home
Interviewer. Mhm.
AQP. You know, she told me. So, me and another uh friend took over the flat, you know. So, I stayed there, and we didn't really get on, you know. We didn't really get on. So, I was going around looking, you know, those days, you know, when you walk in, you see people putting in windows and all that. So I had another but it was just a room you know there are other people living there but you have your own room. You only share the kitchen, the toilet and the bathroom. That was when uh my dad died and I had to go home you know so I lost that flat then you know the the room I lost it. So that's why when I came back the second time you know was moving from a friend living with a friend for a while even my sister that is in the residential home I think when I moved here I was staying with her.
[01:05:34] Yeah. you know, cuz I was with another friend that had a room, you know, um cuz she had two kids and a husband and they had a spare room. So, I was living in that spare room. And then she decided to go home, you know, because things weren't good. So, she-she was also a nurse. She she did um she work in um this hospital down in uh
the park royale.
Interviewer. Mhm.
AQP. [01:06:47] Yeah. So she decided to go back home. I couldn't leave there alone with her husband. You know that's when I said well if you know I didn't get any reply from GSC or whatever I pack and go home you know so I move to stay with my sister that was in November and then December I got to move here. Yeah. You know, so that was just that time I was thinking, "Oh, I better go home, you know, cuz I was fed up staying here, there, and everywhere cuz I don't have no money to go and buy a house or, you know, whatever flat or TLC saved me." Yeah.
Interviewer. That's wonderful. I think I tried to print out some of the photos that Derek had got from you a few years back, but- hold on- I thought they were lovely. That was new.
Q. Was that in uh so sort of the late '60s when you were studying? [01:07:33]
AQP. Yeah. yeah…
Q. Harrogate? [01:07:36]
AQP. Yeah. Yeah, that was a student nurse's uniform.
Q. Do you remember getting the photo taken? [01:07:48]
AQP. Yeah, I went to his studio. Yeah.
Q. Did you- was was it one to send back, back to the family back home or-?[01:07:55]
AQP. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I remember sending one of those to my dad.
Q. That's a really lovely picture. And this is you at secondary school? [01:08:07]
AQP. Yeah.
Q. So, was there- was there a uniform at the boarding school or..?[01:08:12]
AQP. Yes. Yes. Like a check check blue check material.
Interviewer. It's a lovely–
AQP. I never took a picture in my uniform then.
Q. Well, if you're, if you're young, you don't want pictures of you in your uniform, do you? Is this a dress you made or? [1:08:31]
AQP. Yes. Oh, I think this is when I was finishing secondary school.
Q.Yeah? [01:08:37]
AQP. Yeah.
Interviewer. Oh, that's a lovely, really lovely picture. I love the bag as well. It's very-
AQP. Yeah,
Interviewer. -very smart.
Q. You mentioned you make your own clothes. Is that because you really, you love the end result or is it that you don't struggle to find what you're looking for when other people have made it? [01:08:57]
AQP. That was because my mom used to sew all our clothes, you know, like when they have the departmental stores, um come Christmas now, she will go around, you know, and see the ready made dresses and then buy the material and sew for us, you know, and you'll be doing the tacking and I mean, and that's how I got into it, you know. And I started sewing underwears from the beginning. That's how I started it. You know, sometimes I even use a needle and then when I finish, you know, run the machine on it. So when I came to live in London, when I had that flat in Cricklewood, the first thing I bought was a sewing machine.
Q. Yeah? [01:09:50]
AQP. And I still got it.
Interviewer. Oh wow.
AQP. But it doesn't work. But I can't throw it away. [Laughter] I can't throw it away. It's all packed up to go to, you know, the bin, but I keep walking around it all the time. I can't remember when Derek took this. [01:10:11]
Interviewer. It might even just be a still from his film. I think they're quite clever. They can get really good photographs from it.
AQP. Cuz you’re always work with his camera, you know. This is right in front of my door.
Interviewer. Yeah, I get the impression with Derek, for a few years filming all the time. But yeah-
AQP. You're always working with this camera!
Q. Would you be willing if the museum was to share your story for us to be able to use this photo because I think it's really lovely? [01:10:49]
AQP. [Overlapped] Yes, yes.
Interviewer. Um I mean we've got copies that Derek shared with us. Hello– So we're just talking about photos from the exhibition.
Interviewer 3 [DEREK]. We had, we uh, we– we had it out on Sunday. I also rejected courtesy of the Wick award. So not only did we have three films on Sunday night about Gascoyne, we had a had a montage of a hundred photographs. Residents past and present.
Interviewer. [01:11:13] Oh, lovely.
Interviewer 3. So, that, that was- it was interesting. Yeah. People were watching and it was quite moving, wasn't it? People who came from who'd moved from Gascoyne years ago came for the party.
AQP. Yeah.
Interviewer. Oh, lovely.
Interviewer 3. And then they met friends here and neighbors here from like 40-50 years ago. Yeah. It's still, it's got it's quite a common bond, you know, the Gascoyne.
AQP. [01:11:40] It used to be more together than now. I remember if somebody died, one person would go around, you know, collect money to buy flowers and all that. But then it all stopped.
Interviewer 3. Yeah. People are are struggling just to keep their head above water, you know, most of the time. So the younger people are desperate to pay the mortgage. Um, you know, the rents are going up all the time and nothing gets any cheaper. People are str- I think that's what it is. There's just-
AQP. Yeah, but they don't get involved, you know, like how many people from the estate?
Interviewer 3. Well, that was a disappointing thing. We did all that leafleting. Yeah. Put leaflets in people's door. You know, I bumped into a few people and they said, "Oh, we we were just too too busy." I think also people are depressed watching the television. There's just so much going on.
Interviewer. I think everyone must be feeling overwhelmed.
Interviewer 3. -That this week has been, you know, we've had months, months of Ukraine. Now we've got Gaza and it's just so depressing. People aren't bothering to go out. What do you reckon to this thing? What do you reckon to this photograph? I've just got into a terrible argument. About this picture, Amy. If that was I mean if if that was your if that if that was your relative some of the comments that come attached to this picture on Facebook are just appalling. People saying that the is ita gurning competition and you know just disrespectful comments about these people. So I've now got a spat with a photographer saying you shouldn't really have posted it because it's actually not a very complimentary picture of somebody.
Q. So it's a contemporary photo? [01:13:29]
Interviewer 3. Yeah. taken recently by, by John Gil.
Interviewer. I mean, I think if it's one of these things where if it was sort of press where they knew they been photographed, it's one of those things where if it's they're just sitting and somebody's taken a photo and shared it and stuff, it's it's how much involvement they had in it, but–
Interviewer 3. They, they uh they were just they probably didn't know they were being photoed, you know, and it's uh-
Interviewer. I mean the fact- it's one of the things where it's like it's a moment of a slice of life and I think it's just people are horrible. But you can't you need to recognize that before you share things.
Interviewer. [01:14:01] Uh it it's uh some of these comments are just appalling. And actually the the um the photographers saying, "Well, look, this is the end of street photography. We can't go out and take pictures on the street." Well, you can, but you've got to be careful at how you represent people.
AQP. Yeah.
Interviewer 3. In the spirit of like, you know, you look at people like Count Your Breast on. It's like humanist photography. You, you, you show people usually at their best.
AQP. Yes.
Interviewer 3. Rather than their worst. It's just not fair on them. But some of the comments really show that Facebook brings out the worst in people cuz they just comment and think they can get away with it. Well, I said to them, look, if you make comments like this, you could be, you could be sued actually by these people if they find out what's going on. Um anyway, it's interesting get your views on that.
Interviewer. Yeah, it is. It's tough. I mean, we've had things where we've switched comments off on our YouTube channel because we couldn't we didn't have the ability to moderate. And most people are fine, but all you need is you don't want to miss it.
Interviewer 3. Some nutcase who who it's a voice for them, you know, but uh and uh how how's um did the people on the desk who were servicing my hosting my exhibition, have they retired now?
Interviewer. No, Linda's still there.
Interviewer 3. She's still–She's still there. Amazing!
Interviewer. Still there.
Interviewer 3. I had seen her last time when I went to see the photography. Uh I think it was, she was off for the weekend to Saturday. I thought, "Oh, I wonder if she's…”
Interviewer. No, she's still there. Linda, who is the longest serving-
Interviewer 3. She's been there for 40 years. She's the she's, the 40 years. You probably get to meet her that uh lives in East five, lives in Chatsworth Road. I think.
Interviewer. [01:15:50] Everybody knows Linda. She's kind of like the heart of it. So um so yeah so I was thinking so with using photos we like to have a record that people are happy for us to use them. Um so if you are comfortable you could sign something and you can say exactly how you are and not happy for us to use it but if you if you want I could leave this with you and you can read it or we can do it together now but I don't want to feel that anybody's getting surprised with anything. Um, but I mean I've got your- so we don't know who's to take I don't suppose you know the name of the studio as a random that's a going-
AQP. That took the picture.
Interviewer. Yeah.
AQP. No.
Interviewer. So it would be a studio in Harrogate.
AQP. Yes.
Interviewer. Say unknown studio in Harrogate. Um, and yeah, if you'd just be happy to put your name and contact details and then just say yes or no to how you're happy for us to use it. Am I right to ask that question for both these lovely photos?
Interviewer 3. Um, oh, that's my favorite. Um, uh, there is a better version of that which I can send you.
Interviewer. That would be I mean I have So this is just a quick print out.
Interviewer 3. All right. Oh, you probably if Yeah, if it's from one that I did, it's probably it–
Interviewer. Would have been the one we would so that would probably been the highest.
Interviewer 3. I'll send you another one, both of them cuz they-they are good pictures. And do you want this one?
Interviewer. Um yeah, if you're happy to get you to sign over copyright um I can send you an email over. Um but it's lovely just having images so we can share people's stories with something to show.
Interviewer 3. [01:17:30] In fact, I've got a load of stuff uh in the in the cupboard which I try I must take down to the archives, photographs and all that all those estate um minutes and newsletters and things from the ‘70s from the the '90s and the drawings which I just haven't had time to do. I've also got a box of photographs uh taken by somebody in Chatsworth, uh E5. Um he was just an amateur but he used to dig trenches for the waterboard.
Interviewer. Yeah.
Interviewer 3. But he, he to- he took pictures around Chatsworth Road and uh that part of they're actually very good. Um and somebody gave me them one of the shelter housing talks I gave and they said we were going to throw them out. I said well don't throw them out. I'll, I'll look. So who's the person at the archives now who'd be interested in this?
Interviewer. Oh, I mean the easiest one is to send it to the archive of now address. You've got Lydia, Lisa, Elizabeth, they all
Interviewer 3. They're the same team?
Interviewer. Same team. So, one of them-
Interviewer 3. I'll go down with a sample and when I get time, just getting time.
Interviewer. Yeah. I think the best thing to do is just ping them email first and they cansay let's meet at this time or send some stuff over.
Interviewer 3. I'll send some examples. Yeah.
AQP. Um I haven't got no email.
Interviewer. That's fine. It's just if you have it, just put a little line through it. Um, I was admiring the masks because I was aware that the community–
Interviewer 3. Yeah, we've got we we've got some money from IKEA actually and Alana bought bought some decent uh sewing machines and Monday there's a- a sewing, sewing group which is building up and they've got they have a stall out actually on Sunday. Um, but you never know. I mean, if it comes back, we're all we're prepared. But this I mean this is uh when when when it was being run by the other, you can you can take that back if you like, um there was just nothing going on once a week there was something and and then
weekends just sporadic kind of lettings but it's um I mean it's hard work you know there's four of us doing it but uh
Interviewer. If you [AQP] have any questions about any of those just asking away I've got a whole bunch of stuff over so, one is so I've I've laminated so I don't know if you got any outdoor areas. I can't I couldn't remember what
Interviewer 3. what we can do is–
Interviewer. As many as you can but got so I've got one two unlaminated ones of the event next week and then I've got some in the lobby the surveys running to the first say 1st of January. So I thought if we could stick that up and then people can fill it in. Um that's the other QR code of one.
Interviewer 3. [1:20:12] Um what I could do actually I'll put one of these up here.
Interviewer. That' be amazing. Yeah. Thank you so much. We really appreciate it.
AQP. What do I put here?
Interviewer. Um Oh, just put your own put your own name. Sorry.
AQP.Yeah.
Interviewer. So sometimes you get um uh you can have like a photo of yourself that was taken by Derek and it's your photo but Derek has the copyright cuz he pressed the button on the camera and it's just us navigating that. Um-
AQP. And here?
Interviewer. Just yes or yeah just circle circle the ones you're happy with whatever you're comfortable…
AQP. I don't want to see it.
Interviewer. That's not really. Well, it is sort of a project. Um, it's the lottery fund, but you can put yes or no.
AQP. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know.
Interviewer. Yeah, don't worry. But just put NA. It's fine. is some people would want to go, you know, photo taken by me. So, if you're just happy to sign there and I'll sign it and what I'll do is I'll make a copy and I can post it to you. Um, here I I'll sign that and do that on my end. Um, so if you're happy, I'll take that back with me, create a copy, and I can pop that in cuz I got your address here. Um, we've obviously talked a lot about your life and at some point it’d be really nice to just have a signed thing to go, "Yeah, I'm happy for you to talk about me again." That's something we could do now, but if you'd rather, I could go away, have a think about how we use a story and later come back to going, "This is what I'd like to tell people. Are you happy?"
AQP. Oh, fine.
Interviewer. Yeah. Okay. But it's always good to get on that side. And um yeah, as I just so I'm going to stop recording now if that's-
END OF INTERVIEW [01:23:04]
Amy Quarey-Papfio [APQ] . Yeah.
Q. Um, and could you start by telling me your full name, uh, where you were born and when you were born? I don't have to share that if you don't want to, but it's just record. [00:00:014]
AQP. Um, my name is Amy Quarey Papfio. By the way, everybody know me as Amy, you know. And I was born in 19 22nd October 1943 in Ara, Ghana. That used to be um the Gold Coast, you know, the colonial times. Yeah.
Q. Wonderful. And could you tell me a little bit about your, your childhood in Ghana? [00:00:47]
AQP. Mhm. Well, at that time children start school at six.
Yeah. So, primary school and then you go to secondary school if your parents can afford to pay, you know. I went to a boarding school and when I had my those days they call it GCE. When I passed my GCE um I wanted to do nursing. So I applied to the um to do nursing but the reply I got was well that that was their system at that time. It will be advertised. So when you see the advert before you can, you know, apply for it. I did that before and they said oh I have to wait till it's advertised.
So I was talking to my dad and he said well you can go to England you know because at that time my elder brother and sister were already here brother doing medicine and my other sister doing nursing in Hamisha but she came here um when they had the common games cuz she was doing um, oh you see high jumping something like that you know
[00:02:37] So while he was here my father arranged you know for her to stay to do her dancing cuz she wanted to do nursing as well. And so I went to the appropriate place where you have to if you're going abroad to study, you know, and the whole thing took about a year, you know. So within that time I applied to work because I couldn't stay and um I was put to the post office accounts branch. So I worked there nearly a year and a half while I was waiting for my you know everything to go through.
AQP.[00:03:24] It's all go through the Ghana government and the British government. Um when I apply they call me for a written test. You pass the text and then you go for interview and from then on you know it's between your embassy and the British embassy. So when everything was done, you know, I got the letter, I had my passport and I arrived here the 26th of October 1968, 3 days after my 25th birthday, you know, in Harrogate. But before I left, I know my brother was here, but you know, you have no knowledge of the geographical here, you know. So I wasn't sure whether I would see them, but it happened that my sister was living in Amisham, my brother was in Bristol, you know, and I end up in Harrogate. Even though I chose Harrogate Hospital, I have no idea where I was going. But the um British Council was very good at that time, you know, cuz I remember when I reached Heathrow airport, there was somebody there waiting for me with my name on, you know. Then he took me in the car, drive me all the way.
[00:05:06] And I was looking cuz all the buildings look the same. So we end up in uh Charing Cross Hospital station and he asked me if I got money. I said, "Well, I got traveler's check." So I gave him the traveler's check. How much was it? Said £28 was. So he changed it, bought a train ticket for me and put me on the train. said, "Oh, when you get to the other end, somebody else will be waiting for you." And as I got there, sure enough, there was a man, you know, waiting for me. put me in the car straight to the hospital, you know, to the nurse's home and then it uh sister came out, you know, welcome me in, show me to my room, which you know, your first year you share room with another and he called my then roommate, introduced me and and it was good. You know the next next day she call the home sister call one of the nurses who I think she already getting there to finish her course took me shopping like winter time you know it's getting to winter then bought all the things I need you know for winter and that was it. You know, since I enjoyed the um but funny enough in the beginning I was a bit homesick especially against my mom cuz she said how long are you going to be there?
AQP. [00:07:08] I said mom don't worry I only take 4 years you know after the 3 years I wait for experience and come back I'm still here you know but it was a good experience even though um because most of the patient there were from the north so maybe they're not used to black people so you get a few people that don't want you touch them, you go to wash them, said, "Oh, you more dirtier than me. Go and wash yourself, you know." But I had a lot of, you know, this when you go there, you going to make this and you go, my dad said, you know, while you're there, just concentrate on it. Finish your course and come back. You know, don't take any notice of whatever, you know, people say to you and all that. So it didn't really bother me because I've already know this is what I'm going to you know experience then. So but I enjoyed it and after that, finished my nursing course because while you're studying you go through different you know and I was much interested in orthopedic you know so I went to Gloucester and do one year orthopedic training diploma.
AQP.[00:08:44] And I applied to do night duty because I like to go around you know and you know when you're doing day duty you don't have much time you only I think those days we do you have one day off one half day and a day off you know. So when you do night you have more time to you know go around it. And I had a Chinese friend where we share room from the beginning and we became very you know close. So when we have our because we on the same set we get our holidays at the same time. So we go around. We went to Scarborough. We went to Cambridge Ely. Yeah. Because you know to pick fruits, apples, strawberries and…but the only thing I didn't like was living in the tent with so many people and then you get up in the morning, go in the shower, you know, and but it was an experience, you know. And you work all day and they give you four shillings. But at least you don't pay for the tent, you know. And they give us food as well. But I enjoyed it. I can say.
AQP.[00:10:15] And then when I finish the orthopedic uh maybe if I stay in Gloucester
I would have no um Harrogate cuz I enjoy Hargate more than Gloucester. Mhm. Gloucester was more or less farming. You know, even not far from the hospital, there's a ground where they see the cows grazing and all that. And when night duty, you can't sleep. You can hear them go. For one thing, you can go to the farm and buy a whole chicken, you know, buy your vegetables and, you know, so fresh. you can just I want that chicken and they you know do it for you and atmosphere was good because most of the nurses in both places were all foreigners you know from some from the western days some from different parts of Africa you know but we all got on well you got some because some of them nurses is don't live in the nurse's home, you know. So, it looked like the nurse's home were all for the, the foreign, but we got on well, but sometimes you get, you know, because everybody is not the same. But what can you do?
AQP. [00:11:51] So I have to s- and I think my sister moved to London.So when I have my holiday I come to spend with her and she takes me places. So I got to know London, said I like to live here instead of the countryside. So I applied an orthopedic hospital in um Hampstead but then they when I arrived they didn't put me on orthopedic ward they put me on the gy- ward
and I didn't like it. So I went to the matron and I said look I applied to work on the orthopedic ward I've just done the course you know said oh don't worry we moved to uh that time it was in um New End hospital I don't know whether you heard about it.
Q. New End? [00:13:06]
AQP. New End in Hamstead way I think it's a it's a home now but then it used to be uh you know so when uh the hospital that that time they were building the hospital itself she said so don't worry when we move to the new place you know we put you on the you know your proper ward but I still wasn't you know so I was looking through a magazine and I saw um, uh Stanmore Orthopedic Hospital. I said, "Oh yeah." No. First I applied to some hospital in the city somewhere. It's very – one of these big hospitals. And oh, they build a new um place for for nurses, you know, like a nurses home and all that. Then I apply for it. The one references obviously will be from my that you know matron and when she got the letter she just push it away you know because she didn't want me to to leave but she said no when you go to the new you know the new hospital it will be different so she didn't give me the reference. So I didn't hear from them for a long time. So, all right. I wrote to them again to find out why they didn't, you know, reply. Then they told me, well, we didn't get any reference from your previous employer, you know. So, I went to her. I said, well, why did you do that? Because I want to, you know, get on with things. So, I apply again to Stanmore. But this time, I didn't put the previous in the hospital for for reference. And I got a job, you know. So when I went to her with my resignation, look, I'm leaving and I'm going to Stanmore Hospital cuz that's a proper orthopedic, you know. And I was in um Stanmore for I think 2 and 1/2 years. Mhm.And my dad was my mom died. I didn't go.
AQP. [00:15:32] So exactly the following year my dad too died. So I said I'm not going two weeks and come back. So I resigned you know and and I stayed nearly a year you know and I came back and that was tough cuz then I have no um accommodation proper accommodation. I was living with relatives, sister, friends, you know, here and there. And all that time my name was on brain cancer because around Kilburn, Neasden, you know, even Barnet all the, you know, the boroughs my name was there for, but because you're single, you don't want to know. And I got somebody said, "Oh, why don't you try the GLC then?" So I went to an office somewhere in Wilsden, fill the form in and all that. And it took a year and a half when I almost given up. I said, "Oh, I'm fed up with this. My dad is gone. My mom is gone. I've done my training. I can go home and, you know, find a job." And just then I had a letter to come and view a flat now near Hackney. Fair enough. I used to see about six going to Kensal Rise, you know, from Hackney Wick to Kensal Rise, but I have no idea where Hackney was. So I got on the bus all the way down here and I went around here.
AQP. [00:17:24] I asked somebody where Harrowgate road was because the caretaker flat is addressing Harrowgate and nobody knows right on this road at the top there. I remember oh no. So I went round run. Oh. So I have to all this time I walk around the you know the building. So I went in that day was so cold snow was on the ground. I knock at the door. This man opened it. So I gave him the letter said oh hang on a minute. He went inside came back and took me to the flat. We climb up. Oh third floor. By that time I was young. So yeah, he went then he couldn't open the door because he got the wrong key. I was so disappointed. So now you have to come back. Okay. So I went home and I think 2 weeks after I got another letter and this time I know where I'm going. So I came there, he took me upstairs and when he opened the door, the whole world I said, "How long are anybody living here?" It look like the flats been empty for a long time. Part of the window glass is broken. There's no heating. There's a bunker on the corridor. They're full of coal and the cold fire in the sitting room. But in the bedroom, no heating. There's no heating in the bedroom.
AQP. [00:18:59] The little money I had, I went around looking for um heater. Then I went to the office said well there's no I mean the caretaker when he opened the door he didn't you know he just you know went in and he went out so I'm sure he he wasn't even aware that there's a window that was no glass in there and it took from December 17th to middle of May before they fix the window and then they put electric heater in the bedroom in the corner where you can't put a bed there you so it was very awkward but I was determined to make it a home and I'm still here I'm still dead you when I was ready I rip all the when you put your hand there so because they bend the coal so you know the suit.
AQP.[00:20:18] It was so dark in because the wallpaper was something brownish and over the years it's got a bit with the suit from the coal and all that. I settle in there and I'm here.
Q. When when was that? [00:20:38]
AQP. I think the exhibition was 1981. Does that sound right? Well, when I move him here, Derek wasn't around. Mhm, but when he moved in on I think it's on the fourth floor probably he was interested to know. So, he started asking questions and all that that how he, you know, it came about. So, gradually he build up all the information he got, you know, to do that exhibition.
Q. So, do you So, do you know what year you moved to the Gascoyne? [00:21:08]
AQP. Yeah. Yeah. 81.
Interviewer. 81. Yeah. I just wanted to check.
AQP. December 17th. December ‘81.
Q. Wow. You've got a very good memory for exact date, which is really impressive. Um Oh, that's amazing. And what was your first sort of impressions of Hackney then? Apart from when you got- you couldn't find where you were going, it's cold. What about the area? [00:21:34]
AQP. Well, at that time because I was so excited now I got my own place, you know, I can go have my own key. I can go and come, you know, but the people that were living there. Most of them were, you know, welcoming. They see you say, "Oh, hello." You know, because they know who knew maybe they know they recognize the new faces. So, and then I think I apply I said now I can have a permanent job you know and then get on with like and I -
Went to the job center and they said this thing that I was looking because it's only nursing I know you know and that time is oh Hackney hospital so I apply for a night duty cuz I need time to, you know, sort out the flat and all that. And I went for interview and I got a job, you know, and within from December up to the May, you know, cuz I remember the very week I start working, that's when I had a letter from the GSC that they coming to fix the window. But before that, I put it cardboard with cello tape, you know, around it. And I've already had my curtains and everything. So, Woolworth’s;p was down in Mare Street where Iceland is now, you know, and I went in there and bought the the oil electric um heater and I sit here. the heat. I was your back is cold, but at least you know your be because I have no idea how to you know set the fire for the the cold thing and because the walls were all as all this stuff was going to I was going to bring you know breathe in. So I wasn't going to use the cold and then I put carpet down there. The heat will sp the carpet as well, you know. So I didn't use the but after a time I got rid of it, you know.
[00:24:17] And now I build a cupboard around that and to make the place you know cozy for
myself and I don't think you know well if I want to move I would have moved but you know I'm staying there too. Mm- cuz even if I want to move now, I don't know where I will go to start all over again. You know, I got involved with whatever is going on here. So I don't think it would be nice to move to go and start all over again. Maybe I didn't realize it much because I start working, you know. So you would night duty to in and out in and out. You meet people. But I got more involved after I retired. You know at 60 when I retired. Oh what you going to do is just I said don't worry I'll find things to do. Now I bake, I sew you know even those two things I was doing at home before I came here to do nursing. So it's just like a continuate sh thing. Now every summer I bake a whole lot of cake for the Westfield. Come know, um festival, the church, church, you know, Christmas bazaar, summer fair. I bake all the cakes you and I enjoy doing it and I sew most of my clothes and all but funny I said when I I retire I'll have more time to well I have time to do other things but sewing it's gone down even when the co was we set up a you know in here So you know me I don't know whether you met Alana. No I don't think I have.
[00:26:38] Yeah he she works with um Derek to manage this place, you know, she set up in here few sewing machines. So anybody who can sew, we had about three, four people. So we sew the the-the mask for the community 5 days a week. Wow. be coming. Yeah. Until you know everything. I'm sure there's a whole lot of some, of you know. Oh, yeah. Wow. It's lovely to keep it up as well on the wall. Yeah. Remember what you did. It's lovely. Yeah. I like to keep at it, you know, get involved in things going on cuz, you know, when you getting old, you sitting that makes you more, you know, right?
Interviewer. Keep on going.
AQP. Yeah. And the 22nd of October, I celebrated my 80th. Yeah.
Interviewer. That's amazing.
AQP. Yeah.
Q. So did you celebrate with people on the the Gascoyne or- [00:27:59]
AQP. No, you know St. John of Jerusalem?
Interviewer. Yeah
AQP. That's my church. So I decided well, I have you know, lunch with my church family and it was great.
Interviewer. Yeah it's wonderful.
AQP. Yeah it was good. Everybody was making a fuss of me.Yeah. No…
Q. I think sorry I think when you first did I think I wrote it down as Haringay Hospital. Was it Harrogate? [00:28:32]
AQP. Harrogate - Harrogate Hospital.
Q. And when so what year was it was 1968, wasn't it that you first moved? And you said to did your your brother and sister did they stay in Britain or did– [00:28:48]
AQP. Uh my sister got married, had two kids and she went back home not two years ago she passed away yeah or 3 years. My brother married um a lady she he met in um Edinburgh University. So they also got married, had four children. And after my dad died, he decided to go home. So they all went home. But things were hard at that time because children growing up school and-and so the wife decided to come back with the kids you know to finish their school and that destroyed their, you know, marriage. She stay here in she um Belfast but she's an Irish.
[00:30:00] So the children now they all grow up. I think the first boy he settled in Ghana where he was here for a while then he went back and settled in Ghana. He's the only one settled in Ghana. And the last one and the second born the second born is living in Opentine. See, he did some engineering or something like that. Him and the last one. The last one lives in um Northampton. They have only one girl, Alison. And she became a doctor too. She's still working. Yeah. And because the mom too is old, so they need somebody to live near to keep an eye on her. Yeah. And he also, funny enough, he had dementia. The last time I saw him was 2018 when one of my nieces was getting married. And as soon as I when I was talking to him, he was talking about, you know, things that gone old. some things evil is even telling me I have no idea you know and I realized you know cuz he wasn't that old I think he 88 yeah you know and it looked like he just went downhill because the people there uh they didn't really understand what was and to be honest the medical system over there is next to nothing, you know.
AQP. [00:32:00] So he eventually died. He was ill for a while and then he died. So, but the ex-wife is still July – the second son celebrated his 60th.
Interviewer. Wow.
AQP. And we all went and the mother and the rest of his siblings, they all came. So, we all met together and cuz to you know because you speak on the phone but you don't see them.
Interviewer. Yeah.
AQP. Yeah. So it was nice for everybody you know all the family and his friends because he he started when he started university in Ghana and then he came back to finish up here but now they only go on holidays you know because the elder brother is there. So well I can say I'm lucky to belong to you know a good family that really serious about education you know and I think it's all spring up from my granddad because he was the first Ghanaian doctor. He trained in Edinburgh and somewhere else. But he gave the British government a hard time when he went back home,you know. Yeah. Reading his history a bit.
Q. Do you want to talk a little bit about that if you're happy to or..? [00:33:51]
AQP. Yeah
Q. So, what was your grandfather's name? [00:33:55]
AQP. Um, William Benjamin Bograph here you know he be he came from a big family too who eventually became doctors and lawyers and teachers and my grand my father's sisters three of them became teachers you know in the one that was named I was named after she was the only one that went, you know, like clerical work, but all of them had teaching and all sorts. But uh cuz my dad always says that your brain is your future, you know. So if you and they don't believe in like clerical work, you have to be a profession, you know. So they push us all to and I'm really grateful or glad to see the people the you know the siblings before you know after us they also taking over you know going through the
same you know road cuz my youngest brother he's also got a daughter who is a doctor. So maybe, maybe we got you know the caring genes.
[00:35:42] Everybody wants to care for something you know somebody orI got a brother in Germany. He did engineering. So he married a German lady. So he's still there. Had four four kids. They all grown up now. So come summer, they all go and visit, but they don't want to live there. The country is no good now. You know, it's no good. So we can only go on holidays and then come back where we settled.And we had a you know a good family union when we able we get together and talk about things and to me that's how it should be really you But uh sometimes it doesn't go that way. And I've got another sister too. She's um 2 years older than me. She also married well, her husband, they married at home. The husband came here to study. So she joined him. They had two children and the marriage didn't work. So well the husband is dead now but and then she got sick. I think something to do with her spine. So now she living in one of these um residential homes. one of these residential homes in uh Wembley. So I visit every now and then if I mostly she rather phones me all the time you know but I visit when I can in summer time go when we from here going there it takes about 2 hours.
Interviewer.[00:38:22] Mhm.
AQP. You know you got a train somewhere and then you have to join the bus you know to get there. Maybe I spend an hour and a half or two to come home. But she phones all the time and the children do visit. So she lived in Kilburn just by the Kilburn station. And then when she couldn't manage on her own, her husband died. She couldn't manage on her own. Yeah. So that's my life.
Q. And you sort of mentioned earlier that um so obviously is given a long time back to sort of when, when you were a child, but it–was it was the Gold Coast. It was pre-independence. Do you sort of have any memories of um independence or life before that when it was okay? [00:39:33]
AQP. Well, mish mash really because my-my dad was a pharmacist and is a government controls everything. So they push you around like he will be transferred to certain part you know maybe 2, 3, 4, years and then I could go another place again everything packed up you know so like we were changing schools here and there until he decided well this is not good enough you know so we all have to stay one place then on holidays you know we have So we end up in boarding schools, you know, especially when we reach secondary level, we all end up in boarding schools cuz otherwise you'll be changing all the time. So we all come home when the holiday. But not everybody can afford to do that, you know. So I said, "Well, he had to really work hard, you know, to make sure all of us, you know, cuz in all we he had 13 of us."
Interviewer. Oh, wow. It's a lot to look after!
AQP. 13 of us. So mostly spent all his life, you know, working for the children. It's a shame you know and then you have to if you are like a senior pharmacist you have to visit other places to check whatever was going on.
[00:41:14] So one day he was coming home and the truck just cuz the roads are not like here you know you can see where you going sometime you can drive and I used to be so scared like when we go home and in like in the night in maybe 5:00 6:00 we all packed up in the car you know and all you see is trees here and there the road, no lights, only your car lights showing you where you're going. I used to get so scared and he was driving somewhere like and a big truck just, you know, collide with him. Apparently, he was going the wrong way, you know. I think that time it was um left hand drive. So he had some injuries that really didn't you know leave him and well but it took a while then you know those days they don't tell you you know like here you can ask what's wrong with me they tell you this that that you know and then when you die; the postmortem. They can tell you exactly even now you pay money for small things but there's no guarantee they'll give you the right you know they just put something on paper because who's going to question it you know so he died early I think, 66 yeah.
Q. And that's when you went home for a year? [00:43:04]
AQP. Yeah. All his siblings living longer than him.
Q. Yeah? [00:43:14]
AQP. Yeah. Look at me. 80 years old. I can't believe it.
Q. Do you remember? Do you remember independence at all when that happened? Was there–[00:43:29]
AQP. Yes, I did. I did. I remember. We have to go to a park somewhere um on a march, you know, for the um but before that, you know, uh what they call it, empire day, we go on a march and I remember they gave us when the queen, you know, was made queen, we had
to go on a march, and give everybody a cup with the you know the queen you say but what happened to that you know I know we had a cupboard that we all put in there we don't use it you know so as you grow up you know you forgot about this so the other day you know when the queen- that celebration we had I said when the king was put up now I said I was I wonder what happened to those cups we got, you know, when the queen came on all those years, you know, maybe it's broken or you people don't value these things like they do here, you know, you keep them as a memento and all that.
Q. Like a ceramic cup? [00:44:54]
AQP. No, proper, proper like a um ch– you know China with the Queen. Yeah, we always go on a march for even, we celebrate May Day, you know, with the pole thing, we dance around it and all that. Yeah, I remember all that. But then the independence came which wasn't you know you know something going on but you're not really you know into it. Now from the beginning I think Yes. Just before I finished secondary school. Yeah. I think 57 we had independence.
Interviewer. [00:45:39] Yeah.
AQP. But things didn't change much. Then everything went pear shaped cuz some didn't like the president or the prime minister or what they conspired and um I remember there was a war in, is it Vietnam? Yeah, there was around that time. Yeah. And he went to Hanoi and that was the end of it. They stage a coup, you know, and he end up in Guinea, you know, the prime minister in Guinea then took him in, you know, give him asylum there and he died, you know, and Ghana has never been the same again. People come and go and the more they come and go the more the country goes down. It's nothing there now. Selfishness and corruption. Greed. They always borrow money from foreign. You know, the other day someone said one day, now they’re more into Chinese. I said one day we hear you know the Chinese people will take over and we go back to colonial time again. Yeah. I hope not. People are really struggling. Yeah.
[00:47:27] No jobs. All the I remember when the first P then came, you make sure you know even school, primary school was free education and all that. Only when you get to secondary school if you're lucky uh you get like a scholarship. So, you maybe you pay half the fees and you get books and all that but not anymore. And there was a time I heard that you only go to school half day. You got the same building and more people. So they have to have day people and afternoon people. You don't have full day like you go from here like from 8:00 to 3. You have to divide it into. And if your parents can't afford to pay the fees or buy books, pencil and all that, then you don't have, you know, you don't get to go to school. It's really sad.
[00:48:51] And you got all these private people setting up their own school. They only taking the money from people, you know, and you finish and you haven't learned anything to know about the university. You used to be you had a good university. Yeah. So if you have money and you want to go to university, you have to get out of the country cuz you won't get much education there even though you pay the money as everybody want to get you know get out of there and every year they celebrating independence. I said I don't want to know in March the March 6 the embassy here. Oh my goodness.
It's really sad.
Q. It sounds like you you feel very positively about the education you had. Did you study nursing in Ghana before coming here? [00:50:03]
AQP. No – all the I wanted to but I couldn't you know, cuz I have to wait and my dad said why don't you you know go to England and do it if this is what you want to do was the same for your siblings that the opportunity was in Britain and not back in Ghana to study yeah well at that time it wasn't bad but it deteriorated all the time so if you want to study you have to get out and then when you finish there's nothing there to go for you know you've got the knowledge but you can't you know implement it so like you me I never really think oh I'm not coming back you know cuz I knew if my dad was still alive because he never stopped nagging my elder brother when he finish his medicine you know he oh you finished your PhD you have to come back and work and help the country and all that you know but then because he's I'm sure if he had married then he would have gone you knowso I said well if when I finish everything and I was if my dad was still alive he'll be nagging me to come back you know so in a sense even me I didn't you know make up my mind I'm going and I'm not but at that time the country was okay you know but then over the years it went down, down, down oh I was really lucky when I decided oh I can't get nowhere to settle down I'll just go back you know and just at that time GLC saved me.
AQP. [00:52:04] So every time I hear um that man's name is his name Livingston?
Interviewer. Ken Livingston–
AQP. Livingston! So that was the time he was, you know, running the GLC. So I was lucky to escape. So even if you work there and you retire, that's another thing to get your pension. So people are struggling my sister when she went and she worked there until she retired but I don't think she got much pension you know. Then she something was wrong with her eyes. I can’t think what it is uh, cataracts, she had operation and she end up going blind.
Q. So, do you think it's fair to say– and what you told me that you, you came and you thought I'll be here for 4 years, but you trained, you had all that knowledge and there just was no opportunity for you if you went back? That's why you decided to stay longer? [00:53:42]
AQP. No. No. Oh, you okay. Funny enough that when my dad died and I went that was a time my eyes open that you know because that time the country just gone what I knew it wasn't the same you know I said no cuz I got when I was training there was another girl there as soon as she English. She got married. I think the the husband did law and you know where if the government sponsor you and you finish your course, you have to go back. So she went back with the husband. And she applied to work in the general hospital cuz the system here is different from there, you know. So she couldn't fit in but they doing what she wouldn't do like you know here system you know, and they were making fun of her you know but when she got fed up she resigned and went to private sector, they have private sector there, and she still didn't so she stopped working all together. I don't know what she did then after cuz I met her said oh she couldn't work there because what they do over there is
different from what she's been trained to do, you know.
[00:55:19] And I'm sure the doctors feel the same because even my brother after a while he set his own, you know, private business cuz she couldn't work with the government. See, because if a doctor make a mistake, who's going to question it? They give you the wrong diagnosis, who's going to question it? So, even the people living there, it's a risk. It's a risk. So, you know, one of my aunties, she fell in the bathroom, but she was a big woman, you know. So she just stay in bed and I'm sure it's pneumonia she got, you know, and she was rushed to private hospital. They put her on the bed straight away. They put a drip on. So I said, "What kind of drip?" you know, and you have to pay money before they you don't know what they putting in you. The woman was have high temperature and all that. They didn't to me they didn't pick up what was wrong with her and she died. Who's going to question? So if you are ill and you go in your hospital and you come out, it's your luck. Cuz when you know his son was telling me, I said, "Oh, I'm sure she got pneumonia." You know very sure she had pneumonia you know but who you going to ask you know even postmortem you can't guarantee that you pay money for it they just write something on the paper for you to oh what this is what the bosses. You know, even not long ago, another relative
I got to know he had diabetes.
[00:57:45] He has some sore on his leg that wasn't healing, you know, and there was they they decide, oh, they need to cut the leg off, you know, and then somebody else who came said, "Oh, no, you know, he's healing." So, they left it. So every two weeks he have to go to the the hospital for them to dress this saw and up and out of the blue he just went so bad and he died. So I'm sure it's septicemia. So I was asking when they did they do postpart the you know the death certificate this is what they put on a stomach ulcer or something you know so it's dangerous now if you're ill and they believe oh the general hospital because they haven't got the equipments and things you know even extra. You have to wait so long. You go and they tell you, "Oh, the X-ray machine is not working. You have to come back." Meanwhile, you’re ill, it’s sad.
[00:59:19] And I said, "Oh, during my granddad's time when they were fighting, because apparently the the white people that were there doing the same job, they getting more pay than the local people. They can't hold any positions. They have to be yes men all the time." and he was fighting to, you know, get it sorted. A group of people they you know they form like a a committee or something came all the way to London here you know to fight it out in the end you end up getting OB or something one of these uh yeah so all that fight they did you know the old people fight to get the country back. It's a lo in battle. You know, their efforts were now doesn't wear anything. Even he left the civil service and set up his own practice. Meanwhile, he went on doing politics, thinking to me, thinking to make the country better. If you see what's going on now, it was just a waste of time then. Yeah. But then nothing stays the same, you know, changes.
Q. Is there anything I haven't asked you about that you want to tell me about that you think is important to say on record or share? [01:01:23]
AQP. Not really. But we you know my dad my granddad I had I've got bits and pieces of his life you know when he left here finish his um medicine she mar he married here and apparently the the wedding took place in St. B's hospital you know the little chapel they got there?
Interviewer. Yeah.
AQP. Yeah. And I didn't even when I was working with um Hackney we used to go there for study days and all that and I never knew, you know, way after I was so excited. Oh one day I'll go down there you know and go in the chapel and see where he's still to you know sign the register and all that. Yeah. And then he did so much and and I think he also died young. He was in his 60s something 60 something he died and those after keeping up
Interviewer. Sounds like you spent a lot of time then living in the nursing homes.
AQP. Yeah.
Q. For for quite up until like throughout the ' 70s, would you say? [1:03:08]
AQP. Yeah. Uh cuz when I came to back to London, Hamstead, New End, New End Hospital is part of it. There was a you had a nurse's home there, you know. So I think I spent either year or two there and a friend of mine had a a like a flat and but she did dress making and all that. So when she decide to go back home, she's here now. Yeah. You have to run by.
Interviewer 2. [01:04:00] Amy. Amy. Look, there's your bag. Yeah. I don't know what you got in it, but you got your valuables. Sorry.
AQP. All right.
Interviewer. No problem. No, no, no.
Interviewer 2. And there's more things outside. Yeah.
AQP. Right. Thank you. Yeah.
Q. So, your friend had a flat? [1:04:12]
AQP. Yeah. So, when she was going back home
Interviewer. Mhm.
AQP. You know, she told me. So, me and another uh friend took over the flat, you know. So, I stayed there, and we didn't really get on, you know. We didn't really get on. So, I was going around looking, you know, those days, you know, when you walk in, you see people putting in windows and all that. So I had another but it was just a room you know there are other people living there but you have your own room. You only share the kitchen, the toilet and the bathroom. That was when uh my dad died and I had to go home you know so I lost that flat then you know the the room I lost it. So that's why when I came back the second time you know was moving from a friend living with a friend for a while even my sister that is in the residential home I think when I moved here I was staying with her.
[01:05:34] Yeah. you know, cuz I was with another friend that had a room, you know, um cuz she had two kids and a husband and they had a spare room. So, I was living in that spare room. And then she decided to go home, you know, because things weren't good. So, she-she was also a nurse. She she did um she work in um this hospital down in uh
the park royale.
Interviewer. Mhm.
AQP. [01:06:47] Yeah. So she decided to go back home. I couldn't leave there alone with her husband. You know that's when I said well if you know I didn't get any reply from GSC or whatever I pack and go home you know so I move to stay with my sister that was in November and then December I got to move here. Yeah. You know, so that was just that time I was thinking, "Oh, I better go home, you know, cuz I was fed up staying here, there, and everywhere cuz I don't have no money to go and buy a house or, you know, whatever flat or TLC saved me." Yeah.
Interviewer. That's wonderful. I think I tried to print out some of the photos that Derek had got from you a few years back, but- hold on- I thought they were lovely. That was new.
Q. Was that in uh so sort of the late '60s when you were studying? [01:07:33]
AQP. Yeah. yeah…
Q. Harrogate? [01:07:36]
AQP. Yeah. Yeah, that was a student nurse's uniform.
Q. Do you remember getting the photo taken? [01:07:48]
AQP. Yeah, I went to his studio. Yeah.
Q. Did you- was was it one to send back, back to the family back home or-?[01:07:55]
AQP. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I remember sending one of those to my dad.
Q. That's a really lovely picture. And this is you at secondary school? [01:08:07]
AQP. Yeah.
Q. So, was there- was there a uniform at the boarding school or..?[01:08:12]
AQP. Yes. Yes. Like a check check blue check material.
Interviewer. It's a lovely–
AQP. I never took a picture in my uniform then.
Q. Well, if you're, if you're young, you don't want pictures of you in your uniform, do you? Is this a dress you made or? [1:08:31]
AQP. Yes. Oh, I think this is when I was finishing secondary school.
Q.Yeah? [01:08:37]
AQP. Yeah.
Interviewer. Oh, that's a lovely, really lovely picture. I love the bag as well. It's very-
AQP. Yeah,
Interviewer. -very smart.
Q. You mentioned you make your own clothes. Is that because you really, you love the end result or is it that you don't struggle to find what you're looking for when other people have made it? [01:08:57]
AQP. That was because my mom used to sew all our clothes, you know, like when they have the departmental stores, um come Christmas now, she will go around, you know, and see the ready made dresses and then buy the material and sew for us, you know, and you'll be doing the tacking and I mean, and that's how I got into it, you know. And I started sewing underwears from the beginning. That's how I started it. You know, sometimes I even use a needle and then when I finish, you know, run the machine on it. So when I came to live in London, when I had that flat in Cricklewood, the first thing I bought was a sewing machine.
Q. Yeah? [01:09:50]
AQP. And I still got it.
Interviewer. Oh wow.
AQP. But it doesn't work. But I can't throw it away. [Laughter] I can't throw it away. It's all packed up to go to, you know, the bin, but I keep walking around it all the time. I can't remember when Derek took this. [01:10:11]
Interviewer. It might even just be a still from his film. I think they're quite clever. They can get really good photographs from it.
AQP. Cuz you’re always work with his camera, you know. This is right in front of my door.
Interviewer. Yeah, I get the impression with Derek, for a few years filming all the time. But yeah-
AQP. You're always working with this camera!
Q. Would you be willing if the museum was to share your story for us to be able to use this photo because I think it's really lovely? [01:10:49]
AQP. [Overlapped] Yes, yes.
Interviewer. Um I mean we've got copies that Derek shared with us. Hello– So we're just talking about photos from the exhibition.
Interviewer 3 [DEREK]. We had, we uh, we– we had it out on Sunday. I also rejected courtesy of the Wick award. So not only did we have three films on Sunday night about Gascoyne, we had a had a montage of a hundred photographs. Residents past and present.
Interviewer. [01:11:13] Oh, lovely.
Interviewer 3. So, that, that was- it was interesting. Yeah. People were watching and it was quite moving, wasn't it? People who came from who'd moved from Gascoyne years ago came for the party.
AQP. Yeah.
Interviewer. Oh, lovely.
Interviewer 3. And then they met friends here and neighbors here from like 40-50 years ago. Yeah. It's still, it's got it's quite a common bond, you know, the Gascoyne.
AQP. [01:11:40] It used to be more together than now. I remember if somebody died, one person would go around, you know, collect money to buy flowers and all that. But then it all stopped.
Interviewer 3. Yeah. People are are struggling just to keep their head above water, you know, most of the time. So the younger people are desperate to pay the mortgage. Um, you know, the rents are going up all the time and nothing gets any cheaper. People are str- I think that's what it is. There's just-
AQP. Yeah, but they don't get involved, you know, like how many people from the estate?
Interviewer 3. Well, that was a disappointing thing. We did all that leafleting. Yeah. Put leaflets in people's door. You know, I bumped into a few people and they said, "Oh, we we were just too too busy." I think also people are depressed watching the television. There's just so much going on.
Interviewer. I think everyone must be feeling overwhelmed.
Interviewer 3. -That this week has been, you know, we've had months, months of Ukraine. Now we've got Gaza and it's just so depressing. People aren't bothering to go out. What do you reckon to this thing? What do you reckon to this photograph? I've just got into a terrible argument. About this picture, Amy. If that was I mean if if that was your if that if that was your relative some of the comments that come attached to this picture on Facebook are just appalling. People saying that the is ita gurning competition and you know just disrespectful comments about these people. So I've now got a spat with a photographer saying you shouldn't really have posted it because it's actually not a very complimentary picture of somebody.
Q. So it's a contemporary photo? [01:13:29]
Interviewer 3. Yeah. taken recently by, by John Gil.
Interviewer. I mean, I think if it's one of these things where if it was sort of press where they knew they been photographed, it's one of those things where if it's they're just sitting and somebody's taken a photo and shared it and stuff, it's it's how much involvement they had in it, but–
Interviewer 3. They, they uh they were just they probably didn't know they were being photoed, you know, and it's uh-
Interviewer. I mean the fact- it's one of the things where it's like it's a moment of a slice of life and I think it's just people are horrible. But you can't you need to recognize that before you share things.
Interviewer. [01:14:01] Uh it it's uh some of these comments are just appalling. And actually the the um the photographers saying, "Well, look, this is the end of street photography. We can't go out and take pictures on the street." Well, you can, but you've got to be careful at how you represent people.
AQP. Yeah.
Interviewer 3. In the spirit of like, you know, you look at people like Count Your Breast on. It's like humanist photography. You, you, you show people usually at their best.
AQP. Yes.
Interviewer 3. Rather than their worst. It's just not fair on them. But some of the comments really show that Facebook brings out the worst in people cuz they just comment and think they can get away with it. Well, I said to them, look, if you make comments like this, you could be, you could be sued actually by these people if they find out what's going on. Um anyway, it's interesting get your views on that.
Interviewer. Yeah, it is. It's tough. I mean, we've had things where we've switched comments off on our YouTube channel because we couldn't we didn't have the ability to moderate. And most people are fine, but all you need is you don't want to miss it.
Interviewer 3. Some nutcase who who it's a voice for them, you know, but uh and uh how how's um did the people on the desk who were servicing my hosting my exhibition, have they retired now?
Interviewer. No, Linda's still there.
Interviewer 3. She's still–She's still there. Amazing!
Interviewer. Still there.
Interviewer 3. I had seen her last time when I went to see the photography. Uh I think it was, she was off for the weekend to Saturday. I thought, "Oh, I wonder if she's…”
Interviewer. No, she's still there. Linda, who is the longest serving-
Interviewer 3. She's been there for 40 years. She's the she's, the 40 years. You probably get to meet her that uh lives in East five, lives in Chatsworth Road. I think.
Interviewer. [01:15:50] Everybody knows Linda. She's kind of like the heart of it. So um so yeah so I was thinking so with using photos we like to have a record that people are happy for us to use them. Um so if you are comfortable you could sign something and you can say exactly how you are and not happy for us to use it but if you if you want I could leave this with you and you can read it or we can do it together now but I don't want to feel that anybody's getting surprised with anything. Um, but I mean I've got your- so we don't know who's to take I don't suppose you know the name of the studio as a random that's a going-
AQP. That took the picture.
Interviewer. Yeah.
AQP. No.
Interviewer. So it would be a studio in Harrogate.
AQP. Yes.
Interviewer. Say unknown studio in Harrogate. Um, and yeah, if you'd just be happy to put your name and contact details and then just say yes or no to how you're happy for us to use it. Am I right to ask that question for both these lovely photos?
Interviewer 3. Um, oh, that's my favorite. Um, uh, there is a better version of that which I can send you.
Interviewer. That would be I mean I have So this is just a quick print out.
Interviewer 3. All right. Oh, you probably if Yeah, if it's from one that I did, it's probably it–
Interviewer. Would have been the one we would so that would probably been the highest.
Interviewer 3. I'll send you another one, both of them cuz they-they are good pictures. And do you want this one?
Interviewer. Um yeah, if you're happy to get you to sign over copyright um I can send you an email over. Um but it's lovely just having images so we can share people's stories with something to show.
Interviewer 3. [01:17:30] In fact, I've got a load of stuff uh in the in the cupboard which I try I must take down to the archives, photographs and all that all those estate um minutes and newsletters and things from the ‘70s from the the '90s and the drawings which I just haven't had time to do. I've also got a box of photographs uh taken by somebody in Chatsworth, uh E5. Um he was just an amateur but he used to dig trenches for the waterboard.
Interviewer. Yeah.
Interviewer 3. But he, he to- he took pictures around Chatsworth Road and uh that part of they're actually very good. Um and somebody gave me them one of the shelter housing talks I gave and they said we were going to throw them out. I said well don't throw them out. I'll, I'll look. So who's the person at the archives now who'd be interested in this?
Interviewer. Oh, I mean the easiest one is to send it to the archive of now address. You've got Lydia, Lisa, Elizabeth, they all
Interviewer 3. They're the same team?
Interviewer. Same team. So, one of them-
Interviewer 3. I'll go down with a sample and when I get time, just getting time.
Interviewer. Yeah. I think the best thing to do is just ping them email first and they cansay let's meet at this time or send some stuff over.
Interviewer 3. I'll send some examples. Yeah.
AQP. Um I haven't got no email.
Interviewer. That's fine. It's just if you have it, just put a little line through it. Um, I was admiring the masks because I was aware that the community–
Interviewer 3. Yeah, we've got we we've got some money from IKEA actually and Alana bought bought some decent uh sewing machines and Monday there's a- a sewing, sewing group which is building up and they've got they have a stall out actually on Sunday. Um, but you never know. I mean, if it comes back, we're all we're prepared. But this I mean this is uh when when when it was being run by the other, you can you can take that back if you like, um there was just nothing going on once a week there was something and and then
weekends just sporadic kind of lettings but it's um I mean it's hard work you know there's four of us doing it but uh
Interviewer. If you [AQP] have any questions about any of those just asking away I've got a whole bunch of stuff over so, one is so I've I've laminated so I don't know if you got any outdoor areas. I can't I couldn't remember what
Interviewer 3. what we can do is–
Interviewer. As many as you can but got so I've got one two unlaminated ones of the event next week and then I've got some in the lobby the surveys running to the first say 1st of January. So I thought if we could stick that up and then people can fill it in. Um that's the other QR code of one.
Interviewer 3. [1:20:12] Um what I could do actually I'll put one of these up here.
Interviewer. That' be amazing. Yeah. Thank you so much. We really appreciate it.
AQP. What do I put here?
Interviewer. Um Oh, just put your own put your own name. Sorry.
AQP.Yeah.
Interviewer. So sometimes you get um uh you can have like a photo of yourself that was taken by Derek and it's your photo but Derek has the copyright cuz he pressed the button on the camera and it's just us navigating that. Um-
AQP. And here?
Interviewer. Just yes or yeah just circle circle the ones you're happy with whatever you're comfortable…
AQP. I don't want to see it.
Interviewer. That's not really. Well, it is sort of a project. Um, it's the lottery fund, but you can put yes or no.
AQP. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know.
Interviewer. Yeah, don't worry. But just put NA. It's fine. is some people would want to go, you know, photo taken by me. So, if you're just happy to sign there and I'll sign it and what I'll do is I'll make a copy and I can post it to you. Um, here I I'll sign that and do that on my end. Um, so if you're happy, I'll take that back with me, create a copy, and I can pop that in cuz I got your address here. Um, we've obviously talked a lot about your life and at some point it’d be really nice to just have a signed thing to go, "Yeah, I'm happy for you to talk about me again." That's something we could do now, but if you'd rather, I could go away, have a think about how we use a story and later come back to going, "This is what I'd like to tell people. Are you happy?"
AQP. Oh, fine.
Interviewer. Yeah. Okay. But it's always good to get on that side. And um yeah, as I just so I'm going to stop recording now if that's-
END OF INTERVIEW [01:23:04]