Oral History - Robert Deering

Audio file

2026.132

Audio Recording of oral History interview of Robert Deering, born November 1972.

1 x .mp4 audio file recording interview with Robert Deering. Total length of file: 1 hour 10 minutes 51 seconds.

[00:00:51] Robert Deering's early memories of childhood and family life in London.

[00:02:45] Free form Primary school life

[00:04:00] More about his time in primary school

[00:05:44] Beginnings of interests in theatre, music, poetry and drama.

[00:07:13] Early humour and jokes.

[00:07:38] Move to Thame, Oxfordshire and new school life.

[00:10:22] School music career and band teamwork.

[00:13:49] Time at Thame Youth Theatre, acting, directing and producing youth theatre shows.

[00:15:59] Time at Thame Youth Theatre, professional working during and after sixth form.

[00:16:50] What Thame was like, the people he collaborated with there, Network of Stuff

[00:19:37] University and early professional work

[00:22:13] Working on tour, Big Wheel and beginnings of comedy career

[00:28:09] Move to Edinburgh, building stand up career

[00:31:45] Leaving Edinburgh, going back to work for Big Wheel

[00:33:46] Moving to London, Golders Green

[00:37:16] Move to Stoke Newington

[00:38:28] Stoke Newington area, freedom of expression, local support.

[00:40:32] Stoke Newington area, freedom of expression, local support.

[00:42:49] Area of Stoke Newington.

[00:44:06] Career achievements.

[00:50:34] Deerings stand up act.

[00:53:14] Inspirations and references in stand up act.

[00:57:48] Emotions and reflections on performing.

[01:00:37] Hackney Empire New Act of the Year competition.
[01:03:37] The finals of Hackney Empire New Act of the Year competition.

[01:06:53] Edinburgh fringe festival coming up.

[01:08:03] Future plans for the next couple of years.

No

[BEGINNING OF INTERVIEW 00:00:05]

Interviewer [I]: Interviewing Rob Deering on the 2nd of May. Okay, Rob, if you could just say your full name and where you were born and when you were born if you don't mind? [00:00:18]

Robert Deering [RD]: Robert Deering, Robert James Deering and uh was born 28th of November 1972 in West Middlesex Hospital.

I: Okay. I think I mean I'm going to concentrate first of all on just on general things about your childhood to just paint a general picture of the sort of person you are and uh and then we'll take it on to different themes from there. Could you just first of all, sort of relay any uh memories of early memories of your family or childhood memories of your family individuals? [00:00:51]

RD: Yeah. Well I' I've got a brother and a mom and dad. My brother's a few years older than me, so he was always, you know, good at games and things and being generally nice or occasionally not being very nice to me, but I was always thought he was fantastic. And uh we lived by a park and a green in West London, so that was good. There was lots of Frisbee. I had a treehouse, you know, it's all good stuff. Uh one set of grandparents in Greenford, one set of grandparents in Fulham. So it was a very West London childhood. And key memory was the uh silver jubilee in 1977 cuz that was the first time I was allowed to cross the road. It seemed very exciting even though the uh the road was actually closed so it wasn't that much of a thing. And uh there was a marquee in the middle of uh Sutton Square where we lived and uh I cycled about on a tricycle with streamers hanging off the wheels. And more recently I found out that my mom and her friends got drunk on free booze which they enjoyed as well. So a good day was had by all and that's kind of a key early memory.

I: So were you the only child that was cycling around with streamers there? You you were unique or you or was it– [Overlapping] [00:02:04]

RD: No, there was lots of it was a very community event. I don't know about the streamers but I was one of the young ones as well. Well I suppose I think it's cuz my brother I always felt like I was one of the little ones. So, you know, there's sort of the 8 to 10 year olds running around playing action man. And my brother was in some kind of assault course-thing, but I was just, little golden head in the corner cuz I had white blonde hair and piercing blue eyes and quite sweet, but a very big forehead. So, it was a bit like the Mekon as well. I'm not sure.

I: Okay. So that's a key memory. And what about what sort of things that that happened to you at school or what was your school like? [00:02:45]

RD: My school was, uh, was excellent. It was Andrew Yewing School on Westbrook Road and it was it was quite progressive. It was one of two schools in London that were specially designed but architecturally- architecturally, for a certain type of teaching and that type of teaching was very free form. So as we got older, we had things like in the third and fourth year of junior school, we were on assignment. So we'd go to our lessons on a Monday and they would tell us what we had to do by the end of the week and then we managed our own time for the rest of the week moving freely between classrooms and then at the end of the week we probably wouldn't quite have done what we were supposed to and they'd say that's okay. So it was a very uh very 70s the 80s thing going on there and it was excellent. It was very inspiring and I think a key contributor to my uh self-confidence and individuality.

I: So do you think everyone in the class benefited from it? [00:03:45]

RD: I think so. I think everyone who it suited benefited from it. I think some people went off to other schools and things and that you could kind of slip through the net and it needed good teachers and uh people benefited in different ways but it certainly suited me.

I: So what sort of projects would you do? [00:04:00]

RD: Well, oh, exciting things. One day, a teacher came in and told us the story of Macbeth in his own words and got about halfway through and then to write finished that story. So, you know, we made up our own second half of Macbeth. One week we were doing medieval England and we had, it was run like a role playing game. We all had our own castles and were putting different- moving our armies around and he ran it as a kind of fantasy football style medieval war, in maths and science we did recipes but they didn't tell us how much of everything to put in just what the ingredients were. We had to experiment, but one of the best ones I remember was a kind of philosophy project where our assignment in that lesson that week were discuss what now means and you know would I die for my friend or my country to discuss and us being young intellectuals we love that and sat and talked for hours.

I: So were most of the people at the school, had they been had they been specifically chosen by the school or had had their parents specifically chosen to send their children to that school? [00:05:06]

RD: To a certain extent the parents must have chosen just because the whole catchment area, choose your schools thing in London but it was just a basic primary school for everyone. So it was a real cross-section of people. But I had, there was a group me and a few friends were very we were very close with each other and we thought we were the best as you do don't get me wrong and wasn't you know we decided we weren't the best when we got a little bit older.

I: Okay. , right. I mean could you- what other interests, just general interests, did you have as a child before we move on, sort of which are maybe maybe inside school or maybe outside school and the things that particularly took you? [00:05:44]

RD: Yeah. , a lot of the things that are very directly related to things I'm doing now. I used to I did like playing with toys and things, but it was always action men and Star Wars figures and I would set them up and , you know, create little stories around them or just set them up so they look really good and leave them there for hours trying to rope in relatives to come and have a look at them. I liked drama for a long time. I was always in school plays and things and uh, wrote my first play when I was at primary school. , we liked doing music, although it was a while before I actually got into writing and playing music, but we enjoyed doing uh songs and bandy things at school. And I wrote a lot of poetry at school, which was encouraged, but I was really into that as well, cuz again, it was a way of being all intellectual and grown up, which was very much our thing at the time. The other thing as well that my uh my brother's friend actually pointed out to me very recently was that when I was small, I used to spend all my time making up jokes, really apparently really terrible jokes, trying to, you know, explore the format of traditional jokes. But I'd just always be trying to get my m and dad or my brother and say, "Try this joke." And tell them shocking, incomprehensible, you know, four-year-olds jokes, which is just funny to me cuz I remember that's true. I'd forgotten. But, you know, that's what I do now. So, lots of direct lines from what I was doing then.

I: What sort of reception did these jokes get then? [00:07:13]

RD: I was humoured for the jokes. It was probably going to be another 20 years before I got a laugh. , and only humoured some of the time. I think sometimes the reception was just, "Can you go away and tell me later?"

I: Okay. , okay. I mean, after, when you were well at some point in your childhood you moved away from London? [00:07:38]

RD: Yeah, 1986 when I was about 13 I think I was 13 to uh live in a village near Thame in Oxfordshire which was very nice and I didn't want to go as you wouldn't you know if you're 13 and got your friends and things but uh it was good once I got there and uh although it took me a while to uh to get back up to speed with all the you know things I've been doing cuz I'm quite gregarious and social so I had to make friends all over again and start, you know, I went to a couple of auditions for plays and things when I when I first moved to Oxfordshire and then went away cuz I was too scared. So, it knocked me out of drama for a year or so, but in the end, I got back.

I: So, in ter– but in terms of the sort of the things that were important to you at the time, I mean, it set you back rather than knocking you off course completely? [00:08:32]

RD: Oh, no. Yeah, I stayed interested in the things. I just, it took me a while to get into them because I had to make some contacts and things. It's always, it's always contacts. It's the most important thing. Dr that in but I did and it soon came around. I mean we moved in 1986 and uh 1987 was my big year for breaking through, that was a good year in school. It was a very inspirational school field trip where- with lots of fun and games and orienteering and it was a very bad winter 1987 if you remember. But we got snowed in in South Wales and uh there was lots of shenanigans and I remember cuz I went down there and sitting near the front of the bus and I came back sitting at the back of the bus. That was a big breakthrough for me. And the other thing, there were two other good things that year. That year I was Bill Sykes in Oliver. I was terrible but it was a useful experience. And I stood in the uh election that the school had to uh that was running concurrently with the real election. I I ran as an independent independent candidate for the uh surprisingly not particularly silly party the SNPS and uh you know not very successful and probably not very political but I did love standing up in assembly chatting away cuz uh that's what I like best standing up in front of a bunch of people.

I: And so you felt you got something out of that experience? [00:09:58]

RD: Definitely it was a good, good summer.

I: Okay. , I mean I've kind of based a lot of the questions around here on what you've told me and what you've given me. , and you mentioned that you were in a band. Could you just tell me a bit about that sort of well first of all what it was called what it type of music was those sorts of things and just just say a little bit about it? [00:10:22]

RD: Yeah. , it started uh I started again 1987, 1988. A friend of mine played piano and he and I liked music and I played him a couple of records and he started playing them on the piano and I sang. So we began as me singing and him playing the piano but then we realized that that wasn't cool enough. So we built up, we found a drummer and he started playing a synthesizer instead of a piano and we got a guitarist and a bassist and we were first called a Wax Lyrical which is a shocking terrible name. Uh, and uh, I changed– I tried to change it to Sugar Hiccup almost immediately, but no one would have it cuz we'd achieved mild fame within school. So, unfortunately, Wax Lyrical it was for a little while and then it went through lots of uh, changes. We lost a drummer and got a dr machine and uh, and we were called the Jamaima Stepdads and then we got and then we lost our guitarist and I learned, started playing guitar and we were called Giant. And then we found out there was a band called Giant and we were called Silver and by that time we were there was three of us and we were very miserable sounding and I wrote all the songs and I had very long hair and I thought it was great and we were going to get famous and be very artistically respected. But around that time I also joined another band which I was just playing drs in cuz I had a dr kit. I couldn't even play them, but they said, "Hey, you've got drs." And they were called Galar. And I wrote a couple of songs for them. And one crushing day, I realized that the band that I didn't care passionately about, but did it for a laugh, sounded a lot better than the miserable long hair band that I was resting my future on. That was another moment of clarity for me.

I: Is that something that you find throughout your life that you keep having these moments of clarity? You suddenly realize that your hopes and dreams have– [00:12:08]



RD: –Been shattered. [audio missing] So yeah, that's just realizing what's important, you know, like the uh Galar were a really good band and there was three people writing songs and we all just said, "Oh, let's sing about this." And just dashed them off. And also like a real famous rock and roll band, there were several people who didn't like each other that much or at least couldn't get on that well in the band. And yet somehow we managed to work together. And uh you know, we went together for about a year and a half, two years. And uh it was excellent. Really good. And uh and I realized that that's it. You just don't take it so seriously. And working with other people, even if you think they're fools, can sometimes be very productive.

I: So, did you do any I mean did you do a number of gigs with them and things or was it–? [00:12:58]

RD: Yeah. We did a few gigs I think, I don't know exactly how many. It felt like a few at the time. We– a big and exciting moment for us was when we supported my brother's band because we came up to uh up to London which was nice. We felt like we were famous but actually we came to London and brought a bus full of people with us to come and watch us. So we went, you know, we brought our audience with us but then they all came so that was good. And uh and that was in Brentford, the Red Lion in BrentfoRD: , very exciting. And I believe that the Red Lion in Brentford is now a drive-thru McDonald's.

I: That's progress. Okay. Uh, I think one of the other things you, uh you talked about was the youth theater that you did when you were in Thame. Uh, can you sort of I mean obviously this has more sort of implications in your longterm direction so I mean first of all just explain what what it was and then [00:13:49]

RD: It was called Thame Youth Theater as as you would imagine and it actually started around same time I went into the six form when I was about when I was 16 and there had been lots of drama going on just one production another production and then I'd been involved in a lot of that particularly in improvisation it was like drama clubs where we did a lot of spontaneous improvisation which I liked always liked more than acting although I like the drama of it you know. So the youth theater started and we had uh it was a good youth theater, very diverse and I was heavily involved from the start. We started off with a big musical called Musical which is like a Mickey Rooney, Judy Garland type of thing and I was the Mickey Rooney type of character. So that was my biggest I was going to say my first big acting role but it was my biggest one because I kind of moved away from it after that. And uh we did a charity performance of that in the Apollo Theater in Oxford which is that was very exciting for me. And then but then we went on to do I soon directed a production of Ubu Rex which again you know that's a nice bit of experience and I played a couple of interesting parts. I was Jukes in uh the the goody Duke and the baddy Duke in As You Like it and an open air production of that and uh yeah and as I left school I went into directing, and I directed a play called Jack in a Box which is a Roy the Rover spoof and uh which is really nice. I came back to that in uh uh a couple of years ago as a professional thing. So that was really good. And yeah, a couple more plays including the one I did just before I went to university, which was uh a play that I wrote and wrote the music for and directed and produced and you know that was lovely experience with the youth theater and uh proper you know lots of- excuse me- lots of uh people came to these things and sometimes strangers came to them and they were reviewed you know only in local papers and things and I was paid not huge amounts of money but it was all really good real vocational experience. So that was one of the most important things I did from a learning point of view.

I: And that was going on while you were still at sixth form was it? [00:15:59]

RD: Yeah, I was I was at the youth theater as a you know just as an actor and participant while I was in the six form and then on my uh year off and then after I left university which was not far into the second year after I left school I that's when I was directing. I directed for them probably two or two and a half years worth of stuff.

I: Right. So that was actually professional? [00:16:23]

RD: Yeah. Not full-time or anything but professional work. I wasn't acting anymore. I was running the thing.

I: Okay. Right. I mean, I want to just quickly talk about sort of universities and stuff, but before we do that, is there anything I mean you mentioned in the information you give me that Thame was a sort of slightly unusual place in terms of the people who live there and the feel of the place? [00:16:50]

RD: Yeah. I mean, it's a very, it's a kind of traditional middle class and market town, but there was just lots and lots of artistic activity. I mean half the people, you know, I was in bands and I was in plays and then I was directing plays and that was that's a similar profile to a lot of people there. , you know, everyone, a guy who would be in my rehearsal play, we go to the band rehearsal and he'd be the bassist in the band and there was lots of that going on. , I don't know why exactly, but it was very much , we were properly into it. I can name lots of people who went on to work professionally in the arts one way or another as designers or musicians or actors. And uh, partly because I think there must have been a lot of people who could really do it at the time. But also it was our, it was an organization you know we called it after a while we gave a name to it. We called ourselves Network of Stuff and if it was music, it was Network of Stuff Music and Network of Stuff Theater currently exists as a professional theater company, you know. So, it really happened and uh we kind of had that instead of university in a way. I mean, some of those people did go to university or go off and do other things, but not so much from an educational point of view, but from a social point of view. You know, lots of people go to university and meet the group of people they stay friends with for the rest of their lives. And that's what we did kind of through and after youth theater we formed some very strong bonds and they were so because of youth theater they became very artistic groups of people just as some other people might do that from a sporting point of view or knitting.

I: So are you still in touch with those people then? [00:18:28]

RD: Completely and surprisingly, a large amount of them also live around here now. but that's happened recently. people have been kind of because it's a good place for that kind of thing. Network of Stuff Theatre, the the uh key members of that live in Alconbury Road which is near Stoke Newington Station and other uh two two guys who uh three no three people who were all in plays I was directing in that year I was just talking about live on Stoke Newington Church Street. So that all continues and I say it continues but actually it did we we there's been a kind of elastic diaspora as everyone went away and did their own thing and did whatever it was they wanted to do and everyone's migrated back to uh hook up together again.

I: Okay. Before we move on to your- sort of your career, your full-time career, your long-term career, , you had a sort of brief hiatus at university? [00:19:37]

RD: Yes.

I: So, where did you go? [00:19:39]

RD: Birmingham University. I was studying drama and, uh, it was good. I had an excellent time and it was a good course as well. , it was just that I'd been very, as we've been talking about, I got very vocational in the world of drama. Also, my I really enjoyed leaving school and I've realized, you know, over time that I'm it's a bit of an excuse, but I am I'm not very good with academia. I'm something of an autodidact. All the instruments and things I always taught myself. So, I have trouble getting on with being told how to do things. I'd rather go and find out for myself. So, , you know, I had a lovely time for the short time I was at university and I'm glad I went, but then I thought that this isn't for me. I want to go out and do it, you know. And the other thing is they wanted us again in a way I completely respect. They wanted the kind of blank slate attitude. Forget everything you've learned. We're now going to teach you, you know, which I was a little bit too uh strongheaded to take on boaRD: So, and what's more, I had this great youth theater, Thame situation. So although it couldn't last forever, I still, I was able to leave university and go back to my job directing theater. So it wasn't like it wasn't as dangerous as it sounds leaving university. so I did and uh that was a key moment you know sort of I was chasing around what I wanted to do quite seriously and being a little bit probably a little bit selfish and a little bit of a risk taker you know probably worried my mom and dad quite a lot of the time because I was really very bullshy in my decisions cuz leaving university was similar to a decision I made about a year a year year and a half before which is when I was on my year off after school. I was looking around for a job, just any old job, to pay some money to my m and dad and to save up money to buy, in fact, to buy musical instruments and become a pop star was the plan. And I got a job and it was horrible. And I packed it in and I didn't get anymore after that. , I just said, "No, I'm spending all my time writing music and doing drama and uh and I'll let the, you know, I'll worry about money and responsibility and things like that later on.

I: Okay. So,I suppose I mean this is the point when you sort of started to take on responsibilities for yourself as an individual and so you mentioned an interactive theater company. Is that the company? Is that the youth theater that you're talking about or is that another one? [00:22:11]

RD: No, that's another company.

I: So how did you move on to that? [00:22:13]

RD: that was the summer a couple of months after I left university. And uh you know I've had a lot of luck and sport over time because it was good timing. I was coming to the end of my usefulness and you know you couldn't. That was a very lovely situation in Thame youth theater. It couldn't last forever. It wasn't for grown-ups and I I just uh applied for a job I saw in the paper went to an audition but not a not a stand up and do a speech from Shakespeare and audition a kind of playful silly audition and got a job with Big Wheel Theater and Education who were based in Oxford at the time. but that was just a coincidence that they're in Oxford so that was nice as well and I got that job which was great. That was in-the audition was summer 1993 and uh so I went to work for them. went on a tour of Holland and Belgium and a little bit of Denmark and Germany doing uh theater workshops in schools and uh it was quite difficult for me at the time. If you know, I was a- I don't know how to describe it probably. I was a bit young for it, the whole thing being abroad for so long and I was just very unrelaxed. but on the other hand it was the perfect outlet for me. It was very much if you look at the road from being an actor at you and saying well I don't know if I really do acting to being a standup comedian. Big wheel sits very happily in the middle where I was an actor in that I was doing the show and there were bits of acting in it and I was in the cast, there was another actor but on the other hand it was all improvised, all very playful and all as ourselves. So it was a really nice outlet for performance for me. And I did a couple of tours for them. But I thought that was that at the time. I did till Christmas 93 and then a short tour after Christmas in 1994. when uh and that was when things slowed down quite a lot for me at the time.

I: So was that the first time you'd done improvisation, in any sort of organized capacity or? [00:24:18]

RD: Yeah, we did a lot of improvisation at at youth theater. well, we also there's a lot of improvisation in school because I'd done drama GCSE and theater studies A level, lots of improvisation there and I'd always focused on those bits cuz they were my favorite bits and uh and the bits I was good at. It took a while for me to be any good at acting even though I was into it and everything. but it was a new, certainly a new contact to actually go and be doing improvisation for a job that yeah that was a huge step and a big and a real gift. although I think by then and it's really worth a mention I'd done uh a thing called standup amnesiac in a youth theatre cabaret, youth theatre cabarets which were good again sketches and bits and bobs and songs so lots of creative outlets in those and uh I got up and did this it was listed in the program stand up amnesia and I came on and bang my head and spent five minutes failing to fell a joke- to fell a joke? To tell a joke, I kept you know getting to the middle and going back to the beginning and forgetting who I was and that was kind of an improvisation but it was a with microphone on stage and the the stand up was born and I used a bit of improvisation to excuse the fact that I didn't actually have any jokes to tell. So that was improvisation starting off back then.

I: Okay. Cuz I mean obviously that's really an important part of being a standup comic, ability to kind of take things that are thrown at you and looking into your routines.

RD: Yeah. And as a stand-up comic, the whole thing of being on stage and mucking around and trying to be funny is much much older for me than the jokes I tell. The jokes I tell are something from the last couple of years that I've created as a way of doing standup comedy. But me on stage falling over, making people laugh, as you can see, dates back to whenever I got the chance to do it. You know, 10, 15 years.

I: Sure. Right. Okay. One of the other things you mentioned was that you moved around a bit. I mean, obviously you've been you've been going, you went to Europe uh and so I mean were you moving around Britain with different jobs and things or was it just because of this job that ..? [00:26:36]

RD: No I moved around in Europe because of the job and that was great because it's good to travel and I but I never had that bent. It was kind of given to me on a plate. As far as moving around Britain goes, I wasn't really with work. It was, I was partly searching for somewhere to live and something to do, partly visiting people all over the place and I was I was trying to get away from Thame because that had been so good, you know, it was time to fly the nest. I also traveled around a bit. I did do some sort of learning at that time. I did as well as Birmingham where I did, you know, managed to get some learning in while I was there. I spent a month either staying in London or commuting to London doing a clown course in uh Islington. And I uh I spent I did another course. No, I didn't. That was on an exchange at school. That was I think that was after the first big Yeah. smer 1994. I did a a clown course in uh Highbury.

I: Circus space? [00:27:37]

RD: Uh no at Ecole Philippe Gaulier.

I: All right. All right, there's another one then.

RD: Yeah, I don't know if it's still there. And he does he, you know, it's just the one guy and he I think he used to be attached to Lok, but then he wasn't. And he runs a selection of different courses and I think he runs a season in various cities around the place and that was quite an interesting course. It wasn't a good time really.

I: Okay. And I mean shortly after that you went up to Edinburgh? [00:28:09]

RD: That's right.

I: Did you, was that to live or was that? [00:28:11]

RD: Yeah. And again, I didn't have any there was no I didn't follow work there or anything. I just uh I've been to Edinburgh with plays with the youth theater in 1992 and 1994. And uh and when I went there in 1994, I went back to town and thought, "Right, I'm moving to Edinburgh." And I actually went up there and moved in with some people I'd met in the street and chatted to for maybe quarter of an hour. I went up there and lived in their house for six weeks, which luckily we made friends and they approved of and uh and that was great. You know, I just needed a change of scene. I needed to go and see what was going on. And then I did manage to go and get a proper job and have the responsibilities of life and look after myself. It was lovely. I love Edinburgh and particularly good for me because I spent a year basically not doing any artistic work but consolidating the feeling that even if I wasn't directing plays, writing music, doing performance, it didn't mean that I wasn't an artist, you know, and that I would always come back to it in the end. That was the main thing I did in Edinburgh was convince myself that I was serious, you know, and I just chilled out a bit, slowed down a little bit. So, I was in a bit of a rush before then.

I: Okay. So, I mean, picking up, where did you where did you where did you pick back up with your-this - the standup? [00:29:31]

RD: Well, the standup as you know, close to proper standup started in Edinburgh because I got to know some standups. One of the guys who lived in the house I moved up to when I went there is good stand up Joe Henan. He was uh just starting then but he's you know he's been started stand up a long time before me and I think the smer after that he came second and so you think you're funny and he's uh still lives in Edinburgh and he's an established standup. You know he does it for a job. He's advertised the Sun on Scottish TV and things like that. So he was an inspiration to me partly because I thought he was really good but also it was very much my kind of thing. So I soon hit it off with him and I used to I didn't it would be stronger. I helped him write his stuff but I used to listen to all his new jokes and he uh got me my first spot. I was in his house and someone said uh do you know anyone will do an open spot and he kind of looked over at me and I went why not and that resulted in my first professional standup gig which is 5 minutes in on stage after Phil Kay in Glasgow which is very exciting and you know and I loved it and that's where that began. So thanks to him I got into that and also through him I met some other people. I met a double act called Dallas and Packer and I used to, they ran a kind of cabaret and I would get up and sing songs in their cabaret but I used to joke around while I was doing that. So I just got involved with that scene while I was up there but in a very gentle way watching other people do it kind of a way but that's where that started.

I: Okay. So but so by the time you left you kind of, you developed a real interest in that. Is that fair to say? [00:31:06]

RD: Yeah, I'd done it. I think uh I wasn't taking it very seriously. It was something I dabbled in. It was like it was a hobby for a long time. Stand up was a hobby for me rather than a you know I was much more serious about writing music and directing theater and not just because they're more serious things. They were career things whereas standup was something that because I like to muck about muck about was something I could do not something I had to do you know. and then after that I went back to Big Wheel which was you know working in tandem as a kind of education in standup I suppose.

I: All right. Okay. So and that was why you left Edinburgh was it because..? [00:31:45]

RD: I was took that job happy in Edinburgh and they real came back to me which was a surprise at the time. I thought I'd done that but I went back to them. So that's yeah at the end of 1995 I went back to work for them and I went on to work for them on and off you know for about half the time I was working for them. Right till last autumn, 2000. So it was another 5 years of work for them which as much as any standup experience was great experience cuz then I like I say it's a natural it's perfect for me big wheel this interactive mucking around with real audiences you know this is not groups of people who've paid money to see you sitting in red velvet chairs this is a bunch of hundred people who are saying come on impress me and if you do impress me I will play with you and we'll have some fun together you know and working with a partner and completely I mean I don't know I'm- I've on thousands of shows to be real and they're so exciting, you know, and the more you do, the more free it gets. You know, I've got so many memories of exciting and just hilarious comedy happening and in safe places cuz they're so obscure. You know, the funniest things that have happened to me with Big Wheel have been in the deepest, darkest reaches of Scandinavia, and no one except me, my co-presenter and the students that were there on the day would know about them and that and it was excellent. And I went on to marry lots of different things because I then soon became a director for Big Wheel. which was good for my directing because again had been very rigid and serious before and it got a lot more organic because I was directing people in not just in where to stand and how to say it but in how to be on stage and how to have fun, how to play with each other and things like that. So it tied a lot of things together and that was really nice and it was a job which was brilliant. Was a real career in drama performance even more so than the first time because it was ongoing whereas the first time it was kind of like a you know an experiment a treat.

I: Okay. and during that period that obviously during the period that you were doing that you moved to London? [00:33:46]

RD:That's right. Yeah.

I: What were your reasons for coming to London? [00:33:49]

RD: Well, uh first of all, I came down to Oxford, but for a long time I didn't really live anywhere. I was just going on tour and in between I would live where was available. So I was living getting houses through Big Wheel around Oxford while I was working with them. And then I got into directing. It wasn't that long after uh starting to work for Big Wheel again that I met my girlfriend who also worked for Big Wheel as a presenter and uh the actual move back into London, which is quite interesting. She got a job working at the BBC experience in Broadcasting house. I think that was the end of 1997 or beginning of 1998 and I was living in Thame again by now and doing music and drama with people from Thame as is my habit. and uh and then yeah so she got a job in London and we said right well after a couple of months of her she was originally working there a couple of days a week and was commuting all over the place and she was living in Oxford and I was living in Thame and we were both traveling all over the place.

RD: she got a place in London and I went with her and I had always said to myself particularly after I kind of had my fingers burned when I did that course for a month in Highbury and I didn't have any friends in London I didn't have much money and it was just a very lonely difficult time and that scared me off I thought oh I wouldn't want to live in London you know it's too big but I came down I basically was living my girlfriend made all the moves and I just came and lived with her and didn't know what I had planned and uh and that made me realize that, A) wasn't scary living in London. We had lots of friends and uh once you get, you know, once I got my head around it, and B) It was home, you know, it's like what was I doing not here all these years? It was very much after a while I thought, hey, wait a minute, I live here. And hey, wait a minute, I've come back. This is where I was supposed to be. You know, the only place where I felt as good about living was Edinburgh. And there I knew I wasn't going to stay forever. It was another kind of nice breeding ground kind of opportunity rather than a whole future, you know. So, I followed my girlfriend is the short answer to that question.

I: That's a good answer, isn't it? , and you moved initially to Golders Green? [00:36:09]

RD: That's right.

I: Was there any reason why? [00:36:11]

RD: No specific reason. It was all her, she found a room with someone she was working with who already had a flat in Golders Green and it's very and gold is really nice, a very gentle place to live. So, good place to move to when you first moved to London, you know, it was quiet. It was quiet, the car was safe. It was a cinema over the road. as far as kind of night life goes, it's funny cuz we weren't as into it in those days, it's good. And there wasn't as much. But these days, you know, when we are less scared and indeed more interested in going to pubs and clubs and comedy clubs, you know, there's more of that around. But at that time, we were just living our little life in Golders Green. It was good. That's excellent.

I: Okay. So, how long and how long did you stay there for? [00:36:54]

RD: Hm. Good question.

I: Just I mean was it was it a year or something like that? [00:36:59]

RD: Yeah, six months I think. And it was very it was as it was her room and and I I kind of lived there with her. So, it was a bit of a squeeze. And uh it was only when we kind of made the decision to to properly, you know, move somewhere together and settle down that that we then we weren't in Golders Green anymore.

I: And where did you pick? [00:37:16]

RD: We picked Stoke Newington, because it was reasonable and uh because a friend of ours lived here and they we didn't know it at all. You know I didn't I heard the name Stoke Newington when I first heard it I thought it was in the Midlands and uh and then you know, heard that it wasn't on the tube. I thought, "Oh gosh," you know, and then I put some time, you know, I never being one for a proper job, I put some time into uh finding somewhere to live and and came up and immediately thought it was really nice and uh and found a place for us and we moved there very quickly. That was March 2 years ago, we moved to Kaiser Road near Stoke Newtington Station.

I: So, and you actually, did you buy somewhere? [00:38:01]

RD: No, we rented then. Yeah. Yeah.

I: , okay. This is a very specific question. , and I'll move back on I'm asking it before we kind of explore a bit more in case you sort of touch on it, but don't kind of go into any more detail. Do you feel the area or how do you feel the area allows you- enables you to express yourself freely? [00:38:25]

RD: Yeah, sure.

I: Do you, well firstly, do you feel and if so, how? [00:38:28]

RD: I certainly feel it helps me to express myself freely and uh I think when we moved here I didn't realize that that's something I've come to realize. So it wasn't that wasn't why I came. Although on the other hand I think it is linked because I think that you know expressing yourself freely is linked to having a less stable lifestyle and that's linked to having to live somewhere a bit cheaper. I mean that's all a bit basic but that's how it works. You know, if I had a job in the city, then I probably never would have moved to London. I bought myself a big house in Oxfordshire and uh and that would be what I'd be doing. But if I want to spend time trying to be a standup comedian or being putting on plays and things like that, then I'm going to need to be somewhere reasonable. So, from that point of view, it was very closely linked. Also almost immediately upon moving around here I really liked the diverse community and felt it was somewhere I could really relax and really be myself which is something I've always been looking for cuz I am a you know I don't like, I've always tried I used to try and just do the opposite thing and hopefully with a bit of maturity that's turned into doing my own thing and uh and the area certainly suits that. There's lots of people doing their own thing for one of a better way of putting it and uh so that was there immediately but I didn't notice that over time I've realized that it that it suited me more than I ever could have hoped really and you know in retrospect looking at what I've done since I moved to Stoke Newington and you know it was a very things the kind of thing I wanted to be doing immediately started happening as soon as I moved here you know and yeah. And the same for other people I've worked with. And so I mean just get things done from an artistic point of view around here. So that's got to be helping.

I: And why do you think that is then? What allows you what allows these things to get done? Is it the people or the institutions or whatever in the area or is it the fact that you're all supporting each other because you I think it's the spirit of the area? [00:40:32]

RD: I don't think I– it's not you know I don't my activities aren't particularly in Stoke Newington though some of them are but they're more kind of London based and uh the people I'm working with although I work with the people like we did in Thame, we don't rely on each other like we did that's a nice thing about it we used to be totally in each other's pockets and if we were going to do something we'd be doing it with each other but but these days it's not like that we're just kind of near each other we can work together but on the other hand you know it's it's been more of a launch pad for me. Stoke Newington is a place to live while I work in London. but on the other hand, it is a place, it's a nice place. It's a place full of all different people and you know, it's just somewhere you can really relax and get busy. And it has, if there is if you do want to start something up, you know, if you want to rehearse music, there are places to do that. And if you wanted to get a gig going or do a comedy spot then there are the venues and the places to do that. And I think even if those aren't the places where I in particular am doing music or doing performance, still the fact that they're there is encouraging. You know it means I'm kind of working in the right in the right world that there is an audience out there. Whereas if I was living in I don't know back in Heston then I wouldn't be able to see that. You know, I'd have houses and shops and an airport and I'd be thinking, am I the only person in the world who wants to do comedy and drama and music? You know, you could never you you'd never labor under that misapprehension around here because there's people doing whatever they want to do and obviously being supported for it, you know, and uh so it's that it's not direct, you know, it's not that there's a theater where I've put on plays in Stoke Newington. It's the spirit of the place that's got me going. And uh but more so than I ever would have hoped, you know, because that's just gone off, you know.

I: Okay. No. So, I mean, I'm perhaps sort of sming up too much, but I mean, would you would you say then it would be fair to say that you didn't come to Stoke Newington for those reasons, but they're the reasons that have kept you here? [00:42:49]

RD: Yes. uh if not kept me here certainly the reasons that we'll keep they are the reasons they kept kept me here though because we have moved to a flat that we own now and you know we love it and that's partly because it's lovely you know it's near the park etc but yeah it feels like home whereas you know linking back to something I was saying about myself I used to want to be a rebel I used to want to do the opposite thing but from a more mature point of view I just want to do what I want to do which might be the opposite it might be the same you know as long as it's what I wanted to do and yeah that is very much the spirit of our area. So that will keep us there because it would be difficult to feel at home anywhere else. You know, I certainly think I'd probably feel less at home if I lived for example in Swindon.

I: [Chuckles] I really shouldn't have laughed at that point because that was quite a nice little phrase.

RD: I was going for it there.

I: Okay. All right. Well, so I mean I want to concentrate sort of a little bit more on Stoke Newington and then and then move on to your act and standup in general. could you just sort of say since you came to Stoke Newington or to London, I mean but but specifically Stoke Newington. What would you say you've achieved in your career? [00:44:06]

RD: Yeah. Good stuff. I've established myself as a theater director since I've been here, which is something I've always done and something I've always thought of myself as being able to do, but since I've moved to Stoke Newington, I've staged a couple of plays as a producer and director. You know, I put them on, I did them, and through that have then worked for other people as a director. And uh, you know, I've moved from that being a kind of theoretical situation to being a real situation. and uh Big Wheel have moved to London since I moved here. So I've also worked for them in uh Clerkenwell. So my uh dramatic career has uh you know consolidated and uh and worked in the wider world since I've moved here. and uh I've done what else have I achieved? Standup has gone from being well I mean standup was new after I moved to Stoke Newington I decided to be a standup comic. So that's gone from being something, I'd done gigs, you know, like I said, I'd done some standup before, but it was only after I moved here that I thought, "No, that's something I really want to do properly." And that's gone from that idea to being my day job since I've lived here. So that's very good. And uh also the third strand of my career is the music and that I haven't, I've also come on in since I lived here. I've written a couple of song cycles which I'm really pleased with. And I think in a way they're the least career step things of my music career, but they're the most artistically inspired by my life since I've lived around here. And yeah, and from a more career point of view, I've also got into writing music for TV. Much less artistically uh motivated and but much more good for kind of living off. and I've done that since I moved here as well. So all the things I do have gone from experiments and occasional work to steady professional work in the kind of national arena. So that's good.

I: And are you planning to kind of include it to carry on in those areas? [00:46:20]

RD: I'd like to carry on doing all three which is probably you know I'm realistic is definitely the wrong word because I'm unrealistic but you know I've stuck with it and it's gone well. But uh I'm philosophical about the fact that one of these days one of them is going to go off so much maybe that I won't be able to do the other two or it would be a long time before I do. But until that happens those, that's my job. My job is to perform in the context of standup to direct in theater and to write music when people ask me to. And it sounds greedy but I've given up plenty to to have that. I mean I've given up on wanting to be a pop star these days. I let other people ask me about music. I I've given up acting, not, you know, because I thought, no, it's comedy I'm doing, you know, and so on. I've paired it right down and that's my idea. I'd like comedy to be ongoing and it's lovely. It's you know, it has its special, it's an evening job and it's a steady job. Uh, writing music is a is project work. So someone can come to me and say do this and they'll work on that full out but not for very long. , so that works with comedy nicely. And as for doing plays, yes, I think it will be a few months before I can do a play again now purely because it's so expensive. But on the other hand, that's that's what I've done for the longest and that's what I've had the most the longest professional career in and uh so I'll stick with that and even if it's a year or two before I put on another play, it will happen sooner or later.

I: Okay. Yeah, I'll look forward to it. , right. I mean, I think you've probably answered this question anyway, but I mean, I'll ask you again if there's anything else you want to add. Just have any I mean, you can talk about your achievements. Would you say that that they've any of them have been made more possible by your location? [00:48:12]

RD: Mhm. I mentioned a long time ago. I mentioned contacts and it's just just geographically. , it's a good place. You know, I've moved from here, you know, I've seen people, I've been where I needed to be, and that's the first thing that's really helped. , uh, even, you know, and again, that doesn't necessarily mean those things happened here. I mean, a lot of my theater work has been in Camden, but, you know, living here, it's ideal for that. And uh same with you know the TV stuff is all is all and a lot of the the standup stuff is in is in Soho and the West End again you know it's a good jping off point for that but also I can step away from it and if I was living in well I knew this I knew this before I moved to London but Stoke Newington has expressed it very nicely you know living in Thame Edinburgh very nice but ultimately if I want to work in the world rather than in a small artistic community then uh then coming to London was what I needed to do. So that's the thing for me. I think there is the potential to have a real tight artistic community in uh in Stoke Newington in Hackney. But for me that wasn't what I needed. What I needed was a place where I could actually work in London and in England and in Britain and hopefully in the world. You know, that's the plan because it's all too easy to do artistic stuff in a closed circle. , and it's nice to challenge yourself with impressing, you know, the world at large.

I: But the area provides the support.

RD: It's the perfect jumping off point and in a more intangible way. Partly just because of the nature of the area and partly because we're happy here. It's an inspiration, you know. It means I get things done and I write things. Whether they be jokes or ideas for plays or songs, they are all advised and helped by uh you know where I live and liking where I live.

I: Okay, that's great. right, well finally the final section I just like to talk about is what's actually involved in your standup both in your act and in your career in this field in general. First of all, could you just take us through what your act involves, the main sort of facets of it? [00:50:34]

RD: Yeah, it's uh it's very me. It's not, you know, lots of people have a very kind of have a script or a character and I get up on stage and speak in my own voice as it were, although I'm a little bit cheesy and showbiz. And the act is about things, you know, some of the comedy is about walking, some of the comedy is about Tom Jones, some of the comedy is about songs you might have heard on the radio or things you might have seen on TV. , and uh, which is, you know, standup grist to the mill really. But, , on the other hand, I try and avoid always try and be original. As much as I want to relate to the audience, I want people to know what I'm talking about, I also want to surprise people more, you know, I want the idea to be completely new. So, I go for originality. I go for, I'm not shocking, not because I'm a prude in any way, but that's just a tactic that people use and I want to be more sneaky than that. I want to surprise people with laughter about something that isn't shocking. that I don't do, you know, this worries me in terms of how far have I got from being a rebel, but I've got an act that my mom and dad can watch very easily, you know, but hopefully it's still original enough that I don't look like Bob Monkhouse or whatever. and there's a and I think the director in me has influenced this a bit. There's a very uh postmodern aspect to my act in that some of it is about me doing the act. , so you know the the bit of the beginning of the act is about the beginning of the act and a lot of my jokes during the act are about how the jokes are going and what happened just then when I was telling a joke and then you know so I'm very uh self-aware and I try and get comedy out of that comedy out of being a comedian and but you know that's all very highfalutin and technical but I think for the audience you could express my actor as a big man with a big face being stupid. , and much as I'd like to analyze it, that's that kind of catches it. , I'll talk about something at length like a uh, you know, in an analytical way and then express it with a stupid face and a walk and that's that's where the laugh is. I can talk about the Incredible Hulk for 10 minutes, but the funny bit is when I go and uh, become the Incredible Hulk. So there's as much silly performance as there is analyzing and joking away.

I: Okay. So right, The Incredible Hulk is one inspiration for your act? [00:53:12]

RD: Yes.

I: What would you say your others are? [00:53:14]

RD: I try and do normal things, I don't get inspired all that often and the things I do get inspired by I build on and build on over time. and uh yeah TV, particularly crap TV quiz shows old '70s shows adverts in fact, specifically crap TV there's no I don't do any comedy about good TV what's funny about that yeah walking coming on and off stage that's an that's an inspiration for me and lots of music pop music sometimes the lyrics sometimes the performers sometimes classic songs and I use the guitar a little bit and uh and actually play a bit of music in the app but not much you know I'm not I'm not Richard Digence but you know so very general and silly things anything I'm looking for the things I mean I suppose lots and lots of comedians are but I'm looking for the things that everyone knows about but no one has looked at, and that are obviously stupid but I look it as my job to say see this thing's stupid and then the audience go ah “Oh, it's ridiculous. I'd never realized until now.” And that's the kind of rhythm I'm going for, you know, like as I say, like a lot of comedians. , and those are things that inspire me, but they're all very normal things. They are things I've seen on TV, things I've genuinely thought, things that have come up in conversation or things I've seen in the paper. You know, I don't pluck them off the top of my head. They have to come about through life. and uh which makes me a slow writer of comedy, but when the comedy comes, it's honest.

I: So, I mean, a lot of what you've mentioned is sort of 70s and things. I mean, is that because it's from your childhood and you kind of saw it through different eyes then, or is it or is it because it's had a long time to kind of ferment as it were? [00:55:09]

RD: I don't know. I think Yeah, I think from a cultural point of view, I wouldn't tell it unless it was kind of suitable for everyone. But on the other hand, it's definitely me. For example, I do comedy about the $6 million man, which I loved. It was fantastic. I don't do any comedy about the A- Team because I didn't like it. I didn't watch it, you know. So, yeah, it's got to be it's me first and then I'll only tell it if I think it's going to be funny for everyone else. But, , yeah, it certainly starts with my experience. But then as a comedian, that becomes interesting because, yeah, that means an easy audience for me is someone quite similar to me, you know. Uh but on the other hand, I try and build the comedy so that it will appeal to any audience. I do a lot of student gigs and you know those uh a lot of the students I'm performing to weren't born when I was watching the $6 million man. So that means that as a comedian I have to be more versatile than just able to make people who are the same as me laugh.

I: Right. Okay. And what about things that are more I mean that are more recent? I mean I've seen routines by you know well-known standup comics about things as everyday as the Green Lanes being littered with kebabs and and specifically the salad that gets chipped out of the kebabs and things and that's why it's called Green Lanes. I mean is that the sort of thing that would be as specific as that in your routine or ..? [00:56:34]

RD: I do, I am specific. I try and be contemporary. So I do stuff about things that are going on. But on the other hand, I'm not. I don't do comedy about the minuti of uh of modern life because so many comedians do it just for- as in an effort to be original. I don't do, you know when you're on the train and someone's mobile phone goes off or you know your mum and dad do this or you know you're in IKEA when, you know, I just don't do that comedy. But I mean if I thought it was funny I probably would. But as a rule of thumb, I'm trying to come from more of an angle than that, you know, and that's just always been my way. I kind of rely on myself to try and be original without trying to be original. So although my act is familiar about things that everyone knows, on the other hand, hopefully isn't like anyone else's because I have a kind of knee-jerk reaction to doing something that someone else is likely to be doing still.

I: So you still haven't grown out of it totally.

RD: No. And that certainly goes all the way back to primary school.

I: Okay. could you sort of try and put into words how the sort of feeling you get when you're on stage performing? I know it's a bit of an uninspired question, but-? [00:57:48]

RD: No, no, no. It's Well, it's that's what I do it for, isn't it? And I know it's a good feeling. It's a very uh, in standup, it's a very natural feeling. I mean, I'm I'm just me only more so. So, I'm very relaxed and it's lovely to be funny. but it's friendly as well. I'm not trying to go bang, yeah, I made you laugh. It's about having fun with the audience. I mean, on a good night, I I'm always making myself laugh. It's something I was always criticized for laughing at my own jokes and I stuck with it and I still do it. And uh, you know, and so we're all laughing when but hopefully, you know, it's it's because of me. And the other thing is when the act's going really well is I have enough space kind of internally to think about it to think how's this going and I think about what's you know I kind of sit back and watch myself to a certain extent and that's very nice because that's always a good sign and uh so those are the two aspects really on a good night is one a real feeling of complicity with everyone there whatever venue it is it's really has to be a kind of meeting of minds comedy meeting of minds not a kind ‘hmmm’ meeting your minds but you know I'm really feeling that you and you whoever that might be are laughing with me about this and the other aspect is yeah me in my mind thinking that went well I'll do this now you know very kind of small backseat voice watching the whole thing going on and then I'll feel very relaxed and really enjoy it and then I'll come off stage and kind of realize that I was much more hyped up than I'd thought because I kind of go like that and feel very exhausted or start gabbling away to friends and things, you know, it's there's a adrenaline rush, but I never noticed that till afterwards. That's during the act, It's much more just like coming home really. I do I'm very that's what it's about. You know, people say I think lots of comedians still feel it. People say, "Oh, comedy. I could never do that. You know, I'd be terrified." And many comedians, I think, are confronting that. They're saying, "It's scary, but I'm going to get up there." But I don't like that. And that's not for me. For me, it's getting up on the stage and getting behind the mic is is coming home. It's uh you know, I've been in pizza restaurants in Belgi and seen people coming in for the to sit and have a pizza and then go back to their house and sit not talking to each other. And that's what's terrifying being on stage behind a microphone uh in front of a room of people who are laughing. You know, that's coming home sitting in front of the fire with a cup of Holics and putting my slippers on for me.

I: That's a nice way of describing it. Okay. I mean one thing that- you that the area or that Hackney has clearly done for you is through your involvement with Hackney Empire's new acts for the year. Yes. How did you get involved with that to start with? [01:00:37]

RD: , I knew it was on and I phoned up and uh and applied and then they have it was nice because they only have the two rounds. So, there was a big you know, comedy heat with about 20 acts on. I came down and did that and uh and then and then did the final. , but it was nicely timed for me because uh I probably would have tried to do the Hackney competition last year but it was just before you know it happened before I knew it because it was only last January that I really started going for comedy as a job. So you know just after a year I was just ready for a nice competition and you know so just every the conditions were right you know it was good timing for the competition. It was a nice format for the competition. It was nice that it was a local competition and uh I think a good competition for me because I think the Hackney competition is very much in the business of looking for more than standup. They're looking for variety. Uhm but of course a lot of the performers are looking to be standup. So it tends to be a standup competition with an element of variety rather than a real cabaret thing. There's lots of standups, but there is, you know, there is the act who gets into a bag and there are the guys who do mime and that's good for my act because although it's a standup act, it's got singing in it, it's got falling over. So, it was a-, in many ways it was a good competition for me. And it was lovely because the two steps of the competition are so so different. The heat in the uh you know in the back bar, not even the back bar, the back area of the Samuel Pepys pub is very uh ad hoc kind of gig, but really nice and uh and I think for a lot of people again more rigid standups that was quite a scary environment, but I really enjoyed it, you know, being coming on and off stage into the pub and uh just trying to get people's attention and it was very uh yeah, very organic gig. I really enjoyed and I saw other there were lots of good acts on the same night as me who got into the final and they had a similar kind of thing. It was very, very community event you know it was a bit like what I was saying earlier on about Big Wheel. It wasn't about getting up on stage in front of some rows of people. It was very interactive and that was fun. And then the irony is then you get to the final which is like the biggest you're on the stage and the audience is over there gig of all because it's so huge. And on the night, you know, I couldn't see a single face in the audience. It was just a big black space. But on the other hand, once, you know, I just said, well, sod that the audience are definitely there. So I interacted with them anyway, you know, and that was and that was fun. It was nice to take that complicity into a big environment. I mean, I think that's what it is to be a proper standup comedian is to get up on that big stage and still have as much fun with the audience as you would in a room above a pub or whatever.

I: Okay. So, what happened in the final? You got through to the final? [01:03:37]

RD: Yeah, I got through to the final and I had a nice spot in the final and it was I was worried about getting very nervous. Actually, I wasn't that nervous. It was just very strange wondering what was going on in the big backstage of Hackney Empire wandering up and downstairs and occasionally bumping into a fellow comedian and uh I thought I mustn't get cuz I was saying to you I don't like to get nervous and people do other people trade off it and I really can't and I'd tried and tested my routine. And I was saying to myself, rely on the jokes. They'll look after themselves. Just go out there, don't be nervous, have fun. And I was most nervous about getting nervous. And uh sitting off stage and then the guy before me, I can't remember who it was, but I was laughing at his act. And I thought, "Thank you." You know, I'm obviously all right. I was sitting on the chair laughing just before my act. And uh yeah, I went out there and uh couldn't see the audience, thought, "Oh, that doesn't matter." Got on with it. Had a good time and got some good laughs. And that was lovely because uh you know rather than hearing individuals laugh it was hearing a giant box of people laughing and the Wembley aspect of it was absolutely excellent and uh and then I was very relieved and uh indeed I I uh you know went went for a pint in the second half and then it drew towards the end of the evening. I thought oh no time to get stressed again because they're going to announce and also I felt it had gone well. So I realized, you know, in a way it would have been more of a relief to say, well, it wasn't that good, but I've done it. But I knew I was in with some kind of chance. Then they got us all out on stage at the end, and that was fairly stressful. And, you know, trying not to make it stressful, trying to be relaxed and enjoy being on stage again. Uh, and then they announced their prizes and uh they said uh third place Nina Benjamin, and she was really good but I thought it a bit and definitely my I know my dad thought well that's it at third place was Robson. Oh well. And then second place Rob Deering and I had that and that was great and that was perfect for me I think cuz the men in coats who won were very very good and also again they're a real variety act you know and so there was no direct competition with another standup. I was the top person talking into a microphone on the night and you know that would do me and that was excellent and it's been a real boost to my career. People have been phoning up, you know I've had management interest and things like that. I've got my Edinburgh show for this smer sorted out now. It's all, you know, it's again another moment of clarity where it's really moved from me wanting it to be a career to actually being a career. Touch wood. , and lovely. So, that's all been good. And then finally, I went back the other day for the best of the final, which was lovely to go and do a gig there without all that stress. And that was I saw I felt that in myself and I saw that in all the other acts. Everyone just instead of doing their heads in about it and scared, they're just getting out there on the stage on that lovely big stage and uh and having a good time, you know. And I thought that was great. I'm already daydreaming about going away for a couple of years and coming back and spending an hour on the Hackney stage, you know, just in some kind of homecoming daydream scenario.

I: So, have you got I mean, you mentioned you've got Edinburgh? [01:06:53]

RD: Yes.

I: Is that a run for the festival? [01:06:57]

RD: Yes, I'll be in Edinburgh throughout the festival which you know. Yeah, cuz I used to live there. It is maybe nicer for me than some and it'll be really nice to go up there and settle in and uh I'm compare of a show. So that'll be nice cuz I'll be able to settle in in our venue as well. It's very much going to be about that thing about being at home, you know. I'm going to try and get into that spirit of invite of- welcoming the audiences into my place, you know. which would be lovely. And that relates back very much to all my work with Big Wheel to really inhabit a space and free up, you know, it won't just be a question of going to a strange town and getting on stage and doing my 20 minutes of jokes. I'll be going home for a month and saying, "Come on in to my comedy club." , so I'm really looking forward to that. and uh you know obviously it's important so I'll be scared and I'll be doing my best to make it work and everything but on the other hand it's uh it's a gift and something to look forward to.

I: Okay. My final question is that that's obviously one one thing that you're going to be doing soon. I mean how do you see the career developing in the next few years? [01:08:03]

RD: Well, comedy is the thing that's really going off and that's going to continue for a while. It's a slow process. I mean, I'm I'm very grateful it's moving very quickly for me, but you know, it is about putting your time in doing the open spots, then putting your time in going around the country, doing your gigs, and then and only then you get to kind of free up and do your own show. And at that point, I think sooner or later, later rather than sooner, it will move away from comedy because comedy is just an outlet for performance. You know, like any comedian, I think one day I'd like to be on TV. But I think if and when that does happen, I'd be more likely to be some kind of presenter, you know, with a game show or a chat show or some kind of show rather than sketches and standing behind a microphone because it's not about being a writer for me. It's about being a performer. I'd like that to happen. And I hope to carry on doing music throughout because I work on music less often but steadily. People come to me every couple of months and say, "Can you write me this? Can you write me that?" And I need that as a creator. So, I'm going to keep doing that. And also, it helps, you know, it's a living. And uh but that will just carry on. Whatever comes up, I'll write music for it. And sometimes that's lucrative TV work. Sometimes that's uh you know more inspiring creative work. I just wrote a song cycle which was really about something I was into. I hope to keep getting those you know really writing songs that I believe in that express me. And then when the comedy comes, when I'm really established myself with comedy, I might have a bit of space to go back to doing plays. And then I'm going to take Jack in the Box, the first play I ever directed for you but the great play which I also did on the Fringe a couple of years ago. I am going to take that into the West End one day. It's good enough. So, it's just a question of contacts. Got to meet the right people, get the right support, and then, you know, I don't know whether it'll be maybe one day ‘Rob Deering, comedian’ will be a great selling point and will help me to put on plays. Either that or I'll just have to take the money I've earned and say, "Right, I'm taking a month off and going back to the grassroots of putting plays on." But that's how I want it to continue, and I'd imagine still living around here.

I: Okay. Well, very best of luck. I think you're obviously going the right way. That's it. No, thank you very much. That's, that's been a really really interesting interview.

RD: Yeah. Thank you.

I: We'll stop the tape there.

END OF INTERVIEW [01:10:51]