Oral History Interview - Thanh Vu
Object
Audio file
Production date
02/05/2001
Object number
2018.62
Physical Description
Audio recording of an oral history interview with Thanh Vu. Interviewer Alex Sidney.
Thanh Vu was born in North Vietnam, 1944. He left Vietnam in 1979 to escape the communist regime. Thanh set up the An-Viet Foundation in Hackney.
1 hour 31 minutes and 18 seconds.
Thanh Vu was born in North Vietnam, 1944. He left Vietnam in 1979 to escape the communist regime. Thanh set up the An-Viet Foundation in Hackney.
1 hour 31 minutes and 18 seconds.
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Photo credit - Copyright Sarah Ainslie.
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[Transcript of interview]
Thanh Vu (TV): My name is Thanh Vu, I was born in 15 August 1944 and born in North Vietnam but moved to the South in 1954.
Interviewer(I): Reason for moving to the South?
TV: In 1954 Geneva Convention divided our country into two parts, the north belonging to the Communists and the South a free country.
I: Family did not want to live in the north?
TV: At that time it was very difficult, after the finish and the war with the French armies, the people were frightened with the Communist regime and we moved to the south.
I: Tell me childhood memories of Vietnam?
TV: Quite a lot of things happened to us because the Vietnam was under the war for many, many years. So when I left north Vietnam I came to the south with my brother and sister and the rest of all my families are staying in the north now. And for fifty years I never seen my father and my mother and that is a very sad story. But even after 1975 my father went from the north to the south to see me, but at that time I left Vietnam already to escape by boat. And my father died three years ago.
I: Tell me how your family operated after splitting up?
TV: At that time I am only ten years old and my brother look after me and also my sister. But my brother and sister also live far away from the other because of different ways to escape from the north to the south.
I: How was your education affected?
TV: I went to the high school in south Vietnam and I finished the high school in 1962 and started university in 1962, after three years I got a degree in philosophy and so I continued in Master degree in Saigon university.
I: Lead to employment?
TV: After I graduated from university of Saigon I was assistant lecturer in the university and carry on to teach in the high school. And then in 1975 I became the local councillor and until 1975.
I: What did being a councillor involve?
TV: The councillor was the elected member of my town. So really the same system in this country, to go to meetings and to help the people and raise the peoples voice to the council. But I stayed teaching in the university and in the high school.
I: Before 1975, how did the war affect your life on a day to day basis?
TV: It is very crucial, every night and every day we heard something about the war and especially 1975, only one month before the fall of Saigon. Every house in the south Vietnam came under communist regime and with me, very shocked because the, after thirty years no win, but only one month everything [inaudible]. And I still believe for that that with the Paris convention and the Vietnamese authority in the south Vietnam and the American involved with the war, they would have peaceful time and then resume [inaudible] our country, but after five years of communist regime I feel this is totally untrue and tried to escape.
I: Talking about that period?
TV: After the fall of Saigon, I wasn't in the army. I also not pro all the south Vietnamese government, I wanted to serve the people. So the communists told me that you are not the enemy but you do not follow the communist regime so they put me into the re-education camp. But luckily it was a few years and I was released back to the normal life, but it was not normal life. And with my family and children not allowed to the high school even they of course not allowed to go to the city and also very complicated all the properties of the people in middle class. And also money and many things happen step by step to control every angle of life under communist regime.
So that is why I tried to escape, but I failed at least five times. I lost all my money. So the last one, I escaped by myself with forty one people in a very small boat nine metres long. And after a week all the water run out and no food and then the, we passed many ships on the sea but they never went to rescue us. Luckily at the end one British ship saw up and they said that during the night we would have a very heavy storm and we asked them to rescue us because we had no water, no food. So they very kindly pick us up. And the next day we had a really, really heavy storm and if we didn't meet them we would have been sunk.
I: Would you rather not talk about it?
TV: On the boat was very small because it was very difficult to buy a big one because everything controlled by the police and also very difficult to hide the food or water so they had to hide some water on foot near the sand or near the beach or near the small island on the river, something like that. And very difficult to move from this place to the other place. And also from the land to the boat. So everything is very difficult, so that is why all the few days all the water and food run out. And we had no experience on the boat. So somebody at that time he used the water to wash their face but only a few days we had nothing to drink, nothing to eat.
I: Did everyone survive?
TV: Only one died because she cannot cope with the waves
I: When you were picked up by British ship what happened?
TV: The British ship, we met the captain only once when we first in England in 1979. We also had contact with him. The ship was doing something on the sea and they stay on the sea for nearly three weeks and then brought us to Singapore. We had to wait in Singapore for three months to do the paperwork and get permission to join the UK and we arrived in UK in October 1979.
I: While you were in the camp can you describe the conditions?
TV: Some of the refugee camp is quite good because the people who had to pick up the ship, even British ship or Germany's ship or Norway's ship, only allowed to come to Singapore so naturally we were allowed to go somewhere. So we had to go to that country.
I: So because you were picked up by British ship had to go to Britain?
TV: Yes but in the other camp like in Thailand or Malaysia or Hong Kong they could choose countries to be sent to especially in Hong Kong because quite a lot of Vietnamese from the north to Hong Kong, the other country came to Hong Kong to interview them who had qualification and skills, allowed to their countries, but the rest, the British Government would bring them all to the UK. That is the difference between the other camp. But the other camp in the south east Asia or Thailand or Malaysia or most of the people from the south Vietnam in Hong Kong from north Vietnam. And with the United Nations to say that fifty percent Vietnamese from the south came to the south east Asia countries die on the sea. And also we have very bad Thai pirates as well. So it is very dangerous to leave the south for the south east Asia countries.
I: You got taken to Britain. What happened when you arrived?
TV: I came to England in July 1979 and after one week in the Royal Air force in Chichester I was selected to work in the camp to help Vietnamese from Hong Kong to England so I worked there for three years and during the time in reception centre in Chichester I met quite a lot of Vietnamese as the camp in Chichester is the biggest in the UK, so totally we have five thousand Vietnamese coming through that reception centre. And after three years the programmes finished and the reception bring them to everywhere in England who have offered accommodation to Vietnamese refugees and we brought them out. So that is why and especially in Hackney I have moved them to come to this area for many thousand Vietnamese so that is why there is a nice set up and community in Hackney in 1981.
I: Why were you chosen to do that work?
TV: At that time the council and some volunteer organisation came to reception centre to tell us about Hackney and also to tell us that Hackney is a multi cultural society and very good centre of London. And especially Hackney offer more accommodation for Vietnamese at that time. So that is why a lot of Vietnamese moved to Hackney in 1979, 1980, 1981.
I:Were you offered accommodation here?
TV: Yes by the council.
I: Real reasons why you moved to Hackney?
TV: Up to finish working in the reception centre, I had been offered the accommodation in Hackney, so I moved to Hackney. And I set up the Vietnamese community because the need somewhere there to look up to them. Almost all refugees in that time they had very little English and we haven't got the community at that time. So we called the volunteers to help our people before we ask the council to help us. Someone to like fill the forms and bring them to the local offices like the DSS Housing or bring their children to the schools. A lot of work, we need to help ourselves. And that is the reason firstly the Hackney is very kind to offer more accommodation, housing for Vietnamese and certainly I worked in the reception centre for three years. I met quite a lot of Vietnamese and also I brought quite a lot of them to be settled in Hackney. So that is why. And I set up Vietnamese community in Hackney to help ourselves.
I: When did you come to Hackney?
TV: 1981
I: What did you think of Britain and Hackney at that point?
TV: We are very happy because we have freedom, we have quite lots of support by the people in Britain to help us to start our new life. And for us it is great because we can have services and my own country. So I am very happy and especially the new life for us here is very, very good to give us a chance to do something to start our new life and later on to contribute something to the new society. That is the reason I am very happy and I started to set up community straight away and part of my duty to help our people.
I: Find roots and settle down, did you feel Hackney was welcoming?
TV: The first time I am not very how do I explain, it was difficult for me to put my feet in Hackney because at that time only myself. All my family staying in Vietnam so very difficult for me to cope with new life here. Luckily I worked in the reception centre I met a lot of English friends so it is not very difficult for me to cope with the new environment to live. And I don't feel any difficulty to be settled in Hackney. And also I tried to learn more English and later on I [inaudible] to take my MA degree straight away in African Studies. I studied one year and after that I feel English is very difficult to take MA degree and so very difficult to get a job. After that. Not during the time I studies in the [inaudible] arts and English in Kingsway College in New Cross. I had a contract, a cleaning contract with the private company to do the cleaning of the offices every night for a year. So as soon as I arrive in the UK I never get any social benefit. So I tried to do something not to back the people, their money. Because I feel very happy in this country so I take the welfare only to help the people with the difficulties, but I am still young and in good health so I try to do something to live for myself and not to get the benefit.
I: Studying English and working to pay for the course. Difficult for family back in Vietnam. Were you in touch with them?
TV: Well in the 1980s it is a very hard time. We are not allowed to write anything to Vietnam and no connection with my family in Vietnam and this country. Because at that time the war between China and Vietnam and they controlled everything so it was very difficult for me. And also very worried about my family as well. Especially my background, the Vietnamese government not very keen to help my family, even I have permission from the UK Home Office for my family to come over to join me here, but my wife couldn't get visa from Vietnamese authority.
And after five years I took a chance when I was in St Marks Hospital to have a small operation for my appendix and I asked the hospital to give me a certificate to say that I was inpatient in the hospital and I asked my friend to write a letter to the Prime Minister at that time, the Queen and the Vietnamese Prime Minister, the President in Vietnam to say that Mr Vu was in hospital and have very serious operation and unless his wife and children to join him, otherwise maybe what happened to me at that time. And only one month later my family joined me in this country in Christmas 1983. It is very lucky.
I: Setting up a community organisation. Were you doing that at the same time as your English course?
TV: Yes
I: Organisation?
TV: From the beginning I have to use my home address as the office and to help our people and one year later I have address in Homerton House School with very small room that is the telephone room, something like that and we had only one table in there and you work very hard and no ground at all. Because we don't know how to get the application form and we don't know system we can have a small grant from the council for the trust. We had a volunteer to help our people and then in 1984/5 we went with another English friend and get at the time of GLC had been abolished and we asked for help and we have a one hundred thousand pounds to buy [inaudible] at that time. So that is the community centre for Vietnamese in Hackney and people from around.
And I carry on to work for the VLC as I was founder and first chairman and at the same time to work for the Vietnamese community in Hackney, particularly and also in 1990 we make a proposal to at the council to convert that public baths into our community centre in 1991 and we moved to the new centre in 1991 and at that time we had some money from the council. The VLC centre I received money from [inaudble] and from that time we know how to contact with the trust and the funders. And the first money we received from the trust for London was five thousand pounds. So we use that five thousand pounds to appoint one English co-ordinator and he was quite good to build up the Vietnamese community in Hackney and now we change the name to AnViet. And we are very proud and also the trust for London are very proud. We have five thousand. We use their money as a small grant and to build up and get this big house and we received an award from Trust for London a few years ago to congratulate us to achieve the development.
I: First grant?
TV: First grant
I: When?
TV: 1984 or 1985
I: Sum up. You started off with other volunteers?
TV: Of course
I: You volunteered your services to help in Hackney?
TV: Everything
I: You didn't have any experience of getting grants?
TV: No
I: With five thousand pound grant you could get a person with experience. Was it then easier?
TV: Our policy from the beginning is and I feel that is why we had success because working together with English people. Firstly because they know the system in this country. Secondly the English is quite difficult for us and also the house it has English staff would like to understand more about Vietnamese way of life and also we would like to know the English system also ourselves. That is why our policy from the beginning until now, we always have Vietnamese staff and English staff. Exactly fifty, fifty percent. That is why the AnViet is very stable and very good and developments for many years now.
I: Unusual?
TV: Yes a bit different between us and the other Vietnamese community, when they receive a grant. Firstly they keep it for themselves but with me I carry on to work volunteer for many years and use the grant to hire the English staff to help us and we have a property development of more money so that is the, my turn of to have a benefit after we work hard and a development for one English staff and Vietnamese staff to work together.
I: You mentioned about getting a grant, talk a little about the organisation Viet VLC what it stood for and what its aims were and how it developed as a community centre?
TV: We feel that we need the centre for Vietnamese and Indochina people to have a place to be, to have a place to work together and to celebrate our traditional festivals. Even Chinese, Vietnamese or people from Laos and Kampuchea. So I worked two years to get one hundred thousand pounds from GLC to buy this centre and later on with the help of my staff to get a grant from the LBGO for the administration of the centre and also I organised quite a lot of activity in the centre like Vietnamese and Chinese classes for the children and also the festivals and the parties and many activities in the centre at that time. And VLC centre become bigger and bigger. I resign from the Chairman and took on some trade in the work of AnViet and AnViet also at the same time growing up quite a lot. We have several contracts with employment and training in the north London, in the south London, in the central London. Even in Thamesmead we have got a grant from enterprise and employment to help Vietnamese in Thamesmead. So we have two offices, one in Hackney and one in Thamesmead. And the same administration of AnViet to set up the employment and training in Thamesmead because it is Thamesmead from my experience and also a large numbers of Vietnamese and the same in Hackney, because the Thamesmead in 1980, 1979 come away from the central London a little bit and also Thamesmead offer more houses and flats for Vietnamese and with my experience to bring quite lots of numbers of families in the reception centres to Thamesmead so that is why I am very familiar with the Vietnamese community in Thamesmead. That is why I put a bid to the south London [inaudible] to help Vietnamese in Thamesmead as well. At the same [inaudible] community work and also mother tongue schools in Thamesmead and Hackney.
I: Why did you feel there was need for another organisation for Vietnamese community?
TV: First thing at that time in 1980, 1982, 1983, the Vietnamese community in Hackney and Islington and I found that the cross boroughs it is not easy to back a plan because if you put the application to Hackney you have work in Islington as well, so you get a grant from Islington. Something like that! And also the Vietnamese community become bigger and bigger and you understand that there are the second movement from Vietnamese around the whole country to London because the fellow of the police and government at that time. So the people moved to London especially in Hackney quite a lot. That is the reason we split up Vietnamese community in Hackney into two and I chose the name of the Vietnamese community in Hackney by the name of AnViet. It means a well settled Vietnamese. That is a new name for Vietnamese community in Hackney since 1986.
I: 1992 when you moved to the present site. Why did you chose this site?
TV: It was lucky one because at that time there was on Homerton a house and school very small and I tried to find new premises, new office to AnViet and I went to Hackney town hall and very strange. A secretary at that time, James White or I forgot his name and he said we have a very big site in Anglefield Road if you are interested, come to City office to ask them to open the door for you to have a look and of course I am very interested in that building, it was very big. So after I visit the centre my English co-ordinator to sit down together with me and make a proposal to submit to the council. And that is the last grant from it is called Urban Aid or something like that from the Department of Environment to fund our project, fifty thousand pounds to convert and put it back into our centre with twenty five percent from Hackney Council. It was very lucky we got that really.
I: Partnership between everyone?
TV: Yes the Government and the Department
I: Your control?
TV: We still lease it, we try to buy, but we are waiting for the new Department. We try to put a clause in the new lease that we had the right to buy it, but I don't know if we have a chance to buy it, but we would very much like to buy it because we have another plan, a business development for Vietnamese in Hackney and also to reopen something special for Vietnamese in this society. Pottery and ceramics from Vietnam to set up here in this centre because last year we worked together with Hackney council and university of north London to develop social funds to help a project in the north Vietnam province, but we are waiting for the result of our meeting and I learn that north Vietnam is the very famous pottery work and ceramics work in Vietnam so that is why we are very keen to buy this centre to do something to bring the products from Vietnam to this country.
I: Say a little bit about what you found when you came here?
TV: It is very strange for me at that time because I never seen the public bath and laundry before I move in. At that time we have two doors, one women and one for men. And the front, the first part of the building is the laundry and also go further down to the building, two separated sides, one for women one for men and quite a lot of baths over there. And it is mainly for people to come to do their laundries and then later on they went to the bath and until now I still have a son visits us to our restaurant or our centre to see the public baths because they said that fifty, forty years ago they live in this area and it was to come to have a bath or laundry in this building. So they would like to come and have a look and try to review the changes between their time and now. And they are very lucky to see us here and they can take back their memories and also to see Vietnamese in this centre and at the same time they have tried to have taste of Vietnamese food.
I: Talk about the organisation and things you do here?
TV: Our original project is at the back of the building that is the enterprise workshop, we operate it seven years at the back of this building to let the Vietnamese to come to do the showing. And they need a place to practice clothes making before they move to the factory to work. We are very successful to do this project to help for our people get into the clothes making businesses. From the beginning, from 1985 until now we have around, over forty Vietnamese clothes making factories in Hackney and that is a first thing and the second thing with our building is in English classes. We at the same time to help the people to learn something in their careers like clothes making to learn English as well. So with some small workshops like jewellery and also they learn something in here after they work in the jewellery shop, a lot of Vietnamese work there and to have small workshop here trying to design the jewellery in the Vietnamese way and also at the same time we, they can meet with the Vietnamese and the elderly in this building.
And after two years we set up the AnViet project in this centre, but English classes is the key point to Vietnamese people because the people from Vietnam who come to this country is almost ethnic Chinese from the north Vietnam and especially quite lots of them live near the border between Vietnam and China and very low educated. No education background. So they need to learn more and more English and also to help them to cope with the welfare system in this country and at the same time to help them to contact with the employers especially in Chinese restaurants in China Town. At the same time we have a project in here to help especially the middle age people who feel it is very difficult to learn English and also to help with the young generation who have been involved with in Hong Kong. So quite a lot of things in this centre.
And the future plan for our next year is to open the catering project to, because I feel that the catering training is a big demand for all Vietnamese and Chinese restaurants, takeaways in the city and also in Hackney as well. And you see that Mare Street or Kingsland or Hackney road there are quite a lot of Vietnamese restaurants in that area, but very difficult to have cooks who have skills in doing the cooking of Chinese or Vietnamese food. So now we are working together with the School of Catering in Hackney Community Centre, work together and in the next few months we will try to organise a food hygiene courses. In last year we have organised courses already but now more demand from Vietnamese catering industries to open a few more courses in catering, in food hygiene and also restaurant licensing as well. So on the next months we are very busy to set up this project.
I: Main ways you can help the Vietnamese community to develop skills to gain employment?
TV: Our new strategy in the coming years are not concentrating on welfare any more because they are children growing up so no need to concentrate in that field. So we now open to the businesses so Vietnamese have been in this country for twenty years they have experience, they have skill in Vietnam and up to twenty years to save some money. As you know Vietnamese are not like English people to go to holiday or to go to pubs to drink and if they are unemployed they have no money to spend on the other things, but even unemployed Vietnamese they still save some money and day by day they never have a holiday, they never go to the pub and after twenty years they have saved money and now their children growing up and they can cope with the forms or some other things to bring their parents to go to the DSS or Housing. We don't need to concentrate in that field any more. So my new strategy now is the business because the experience when I visited America last year I feel that Vietnamese in America in only twenty years they developed the California, the orange Everywhere you go through, almost big Vietnamese shops and big Vietnamese restaurants and they have their own yellow pages. They have their own business telephone books and every single thing new society owns them by Vietnamese. I want to bring that experience from America to Hackney, especially as you know now with the help from the council we try to set up a little Vietnam in main street and we have got people to deal with their skill and their money to businesses in Hackney. And only last year and this year you can see that many, many shops owned by Vietnamese Hackney and in London. Only two years and I think we have over two hundred shops in London and Hackney owned by Vietnamese. Because we are also making now, the people taught the Government that there is Europe and cross making category very difficult to service and they open restaurants, takeaway, off licences, shops everywhere in Hackney. So we need to concentrate in businesses development for Vietnamese.
I: The canteen here seems more than just that?
TV: Firstly we operated the canteen in 1983 at nearly a year to move to the new centre. At that time the canteen to serve the people who were operated the workshops at the back of the building and also for students, Vietnamese and also the elderly. And then because the Vietnamese food I felt that was a very new way to go by to the market. So quite a lot of people were interested in Vietnamese food and especially people who visited Vietnam have worked in Vietnam. When they are back to England they try to get back their memories in Vietnam and Vietnamese friends to bring them to our country and in 1997 we submit the application form to planning department to change the canteen to the restaurant and we become more and more popular. And especially when the council increase the rent of this building from thirteen thousand pounds a year we have to work harder to keep the restaurant going because it is our idea from the beginning. We want to be self financial. Of course you know money is never enough. If you have more money we have more projects. If rainy days like this time the Hackney council in that. So we feel the idea of our being self sufficient is more important. So at least if we have no funding, we still have the building, we still have money to pay the rent to the council and also we still have at least part time, in the worst case at least we still have a part time worker. The money came from the fees from the canteen to the foundation, so I feel that is very good example for the community to try to do something to help themselves first before the banks for the trust or the funder to give them something because the money of the trust are the funders become harder and harder. If you don't have a good project, if you don't have money to survive during the rainy days, it is very difficult for them to exist. That is the reason we tried to keep the restaurant going well and not only to benefit of the community but also the way to because the food and also the culture are factor as well. The restaurant as the focus point for Vietnamese and also the people who are interested in Vietnamese culture to come and then we can develop more in cultural for the future. My idea that apart from catering training in the coming years I also intend to set up a research centre about Vietnamese culture for our young generation and also the people, students who are interested in Vietnamese culture to have a chance to come here to have my experience or my knowledge in Vietnamese culture to help them write a dissertation and get a PhD degree. In the past years we have around forty students to come here to do research. I had a great document, I made about Vietnamese and Vietnamese topics in general. So the long term we would like to have a research centre here.
I: Sum up work of the foundation. How many people do you currently help in a year?
TV: Well to help Vietnamese in this centre in the past more and more but roughly every year we have one thousand five hundred to two thousand come to this centre. Not only the figure but we have full services here. Everybody to come here we make a photocopy of their documents and to prove that they have a real job but not only the numbers on the paper so that is why a lot of numbers come to us. They see that we have a record of service with full document attached with their case. And also they can count how many thousand people come to us. That is the way we try to keep our records in the proper way.
I: Showing photocopies of all the documentation of the individuals, including photographs.
TV: We also have this form where they write down their name, addresses, their phone number, the case and action. We try to do and after we have done, we keep all the records here.
I: Talk about your personal life. Your family came over here. Where did you live before family came?
TV: I live at the same place since 1981 at Manor House area. I still live there. Even now family, we bought a council flat there and also I bought a new house in the same area. And my family are very successful in settlement in this country.
I: You lived in Manor House. What did you feel at that time Hackney offered you as a family?
TV: Well the big change in that way since 1980 until now, all over the twenty years I have been in Hackney so I can feel the change from the very rough boroughs in 1980 until now. Hackney has become very fashionable and also the social life has changed quite a lot from worse to better place to live and you can see that. The accommodation, housing in Hackney is in terms of prices, a lot, a lot. My flat in 1980 the council offer me to buy the right to buy at that time was only nineteen thousand pounds. And now worth over a hundred and fifty thousand pounds. It is a council flat. So you can see how changed Hackney is for twenty years. I was also director of Vietnamese Housing Association. You can see that it is very difficult to find pieces of land in Hackney now to build something. It is totally changed. And also with the effort of the workman of our local society have tried to build Hackney a safe place to live and so education as well. When my daughter came to Hackney she joined the primary school in Manor House and every day she come back to home she cry and cry because of bullying in the school and I had to change that, her school from the Woodbury Downs to St Mary's in Haringey. And also another school was the same, but now education in Hackney is also, even better than the other boroughs, it is much, much better and also the safe for the people to live and also crime is also reduced I think.
I: Do you have religion?
TV: I am Catholic, but I taught philosophy and I studied philosophy especially Confucius. So I improved for myself and I can find the work in my heart not the work in the church. So the religions is important, but not important if you are not improved yourself. So you come to praise god, but back home we have the [inaudible] to live in harmony and to follow the light of what in your heart, not in the church.
I: Have you always been catholic?
TV: Yes
I: Tell me about your children and what they have achieved?
TV: I can tell you that not only my families but almost all Vietnamese children all around the world become tough everywhere, especially in America. In this country in 1991 I remember that ITV television also had research about who was the top in their classes, in their form and they put the Vietnamese children at the top and there was a picture about Vietnamese education in England. And take my family for example. My children came to this country, two daughters came in this country around nine or ten years old and the last year of primary school and after two years moved to the high school and they can cope with the education system in high school straight away and when they came to GCSE my children, eleven or twelve had grade A or grade B. and my first daughter she is an architect and is teaching in Kingston University and my second daughter she works part time and also part time in Westminster University. And now she only twenty seven years old she is director of development of the Maidenhead and District Housing Association and my son graduated from the university and is a computer man. So that is one example. Because Vietnamese always put the education on top and they always do education their children, take the chance to concentrate on education and then they will have a bright future. So that is a general idea of all Vietnamese families and especially they put the Chinese or Vietnamese, they put education of teacher the second place after the King or after the State man, before the parent. So we follow our ancestors back to educate our children. So that is a good contribute to our next generation to the new society. And I am very proud about my children or Vietnamese children in general in every way they live now. They are very successful in education and job. And if any company to recruit Vietnamese please think of the Vietnamese workers who work very hard and also very good behaviour. So that is why we
are a success.
I: Could you explain?
TV: I mean from the beginning when I arrived in Hackney as I explained, it was a rough borough, very difficult to live because quite a lot of crime and also the environment was not very good, but day by day it has improved quite a lot and also the Vietnamese they like to live in Hackney because of the multi cultural, mixed with many other nationalities and also they can go to market, they can find many similar Vietnamese food in Hackney and especially in Hackney easy to go to the city. And also they have many possibility for them to do some slave job. It mean in the first making businesses. It is very little money. But they work for ten hours and fifteen hours to get twenty pounds or thirty pounds to make a shirt like this. But they sell the shirt in the shop for ten, fifteen pounds, it depends on the mark, but better than nothing. They work very hard and try to save money for their future. And now you can see that they have build their businesses quite a lot in Hackney and now to live in Harmony of a lot of people in their area, they can achieve that because they feel they live in harmony. I don't think that we have a great difficult with our neighbours because Vietnamese are always very kind and very friendly with their neighbours always to make friends, like a birthday party or new year they making some food at home and give it to the neighbours. And we have got four thousand Vietnamese in Hackney so every family to do the same. So we feel that Hackney is our country, even with our different in division or different in the way of life, but we still feel that. Hackney is a part of our home.
I: Expectations of Hackney in the future?
TV: My expectation is to let our community become bigger and bigger in doing businesses and especially our next generation to work harder and also at the same time to contribute something for the new society in their skills and intelligence to contribute to our new society. At the same time to keep our old culture. That is key that we improve ourselves and live in harmony with the people. That is the wishes for my generation and also my younger generation in this country.
Thanh Vu (TV): My name is Thanh Vu, I was born in 15 August 1944 and born in North Vietnam but moved to the South in 1954.
Interviewer(I): Reason for moving to the South?
TV: In 1954 Geneva Convention divided our country into two parts, the north belonging to the Communists and the South a free country.
I: Family did not want to live in the north?
TV: At that time it was very difficult, after the finish and the war with the French armies, the people were frightened with the Communist regime and we moved to the south.
I: Tell me childhood memories of Vietnam?
TV: Quite a lot of things happened to us because the Vietnam was under the war for many, many years. So when I left north Vietnam I came to the south with my brother and sister and the rest of all my families are staying in the north now. And for fifty years I never seen my father and my mother and that is a very sad story. But even after 1975 my father went from the north to the south to see me, but at that time I left Vietnam already to escape by boat. And my father died three years ago.
I: Tell me how your family operated after splitting up?
TV: At that time I am only ten years old and my brother look after me and also my sister. But my brother and sister also live far away from the other because of different ways to escape from the north to the south.
I: How was your education affected?
TV: I went to the high school in south Vietnam and I finished the high school in 1962 and started university in 1962, after three years I got a degree in philosophy and so I continued in Master degree in Saigon university.
I: Lead to employment?
TV: After I graduated from university of Saigon I was assistant lecturer in the university and carry on to teach in the high school. And then in 1975 I became the local councillor and until 1975.
I: What did being a councillor involve?
TV: The councillor was the elected member of my town. So really the same system in this country, to go to meetings and to help the people and raise the peoples voice to the council. But I stayed teaching in the university and in the high school.
I: Before 1975, how did the war affect your life on a day to day basis?
TV: It is very crucial, every night and every day we heard something about the war and especially 1975, only one month before the fall of Saigon. Every house in the south Vietnam came under communist regime and with me, very shocked because the, after thirty years no win, but only one month everything [inaudible]. And I still believe for that that with the Paris convention and the Vietnamese authority in the south Vietnam and the American involved with the war, they would have peaceful time and then resume [inaudible] our country, but after five years of communist regime I feel this is totally untrue and tried to escape.
I: Talking about that period?
TV: After the fall of Saigon, I wasn't in the army. I also not pro all the south Vietnamese government, I wanted to serve the people. So the communists told me that you are not the enemy but you do not follow the communist regime so they put me into the re-education camp. But luckily it was a few years and I was released back to the normal life, but it was not normal life. And with my family and children not allowed to the high school even they of course not allowed to go to the city and also very complicated all the properties of the people in middle class. And also money and many things happen step by step to control every angle of life under communist regime.
So that is why I tried to escape, but I failed at least five times. I lost all my money. So the last one, I escaped by myself with forty one people in a very small boat nine metres long. And after a week all the water run out and no food and then the, we passed many ships on the sea but they never went to rescue us. Luckily at the end one British ship saw up and they said that during the night we would have a very heavy storm and we asked them to rescue us because we had no water, no food. So they very kindly pick us up. And the next day we had a really, really heavy storm and if we didn't meet them we would have been sunk.
I: Would you rather not talk about it?
TV: On the boat was very small because it was very difficult to buy a big one because everything controlled by the police and also very difficult to hide the food or water so they had to hide some water on foot near the sand or near the beach or near the small island on the river, something like that. And very difficult to move from this place to the other place. And also from the land to the boat. So everything is very difficult, so that is why all the few days all the water and food run out. And we had no experience on the boat. So somebody at that time he used the water to wash their face but only a few days we had nothing to drink, nothing to eat.
I: Did everyone survive?
TV: Only one died because she cannot cope with the waves
I: When you were picked up by British ship what happened?
TV: The British ship, we met the captain only once when we first in England in 1979. We also had contact with him. The ship was doing something on the sea and they stay on the sea for nearly three weeks and then brought us to Singapore. We had to wait in Singapore for three months to do the paperwork and get permission to join the UK and we arrived in UK in October 1979.
I: While you were in the camp can you describe the conditions?
TV: Some of the refugee camp is quite good because the people who had to pick up the ship, even British ship or Germany's ship or Norway's ship, only allowed to come to Singapore so naturally we were allowed to go somewhere. So we had to go to that country.
I: So because you were picked up by British ship had to go to Britain?
TV: Yes but in the other camp like in Thailand or Malaysia or Hong Kong they could choose countries to be sent to especially in Hong Kong because quite a lot of Vietnamese from the north to Hong Kong, the other country came to Hong Kong to interview them who had qualification and skills, allowed to their countries, but the rest, the British Government would bring them all to the UK. That is the difference between the other camp. But the other camp in the south east Asia or Thailand or Malaysia or most of the people from the south Vietnam in Hong Kong from north Vietnam. And with the United Nations to say that fifty percent Vietnamese from the south came to the south east Asia countries die on the sea. And also we have very bad Thai pirates as well. So it is very dangerous to leave the south for the south east Asia countries.
I: You got taken to Britain. What happened when you arrived?
TV: I came to England in July 1979 and after one week in the Royal Air force in Chichester I was selected to work in the camp to help Vietnamese from Hong Kong to England so I worked there for three years and during the time in reception centre in Chichester I met quite a lot of Vietnamese as the camp in Chichester is the biggest in the UK, so totally we have five thousand Vietnamese coming through that reception centre. And after three years the programmes finished and the reception bring them to everywhere in England who have offered accommodation to Vietnamese refugees and we brought them out. So that is why and especially in Hackney I have moved them to come to this area for many thousand Vietnamese so that is why there is a nice set up and community in Hackney in 1981.
I: Why were you chosen to do that work?
TV: At that time the council and some volunteer organisation came to reception centre to tell us about Hackney and also to tell us that Hackney is a multi cultural society and very good centre of London. And especially Hackney offer more accommodation for Vietnamese at that time. So that is why a lot of Vietnamese moved to Hackney in 1979, 1980, 1981.
I:Were you offered accommodation here?
TV: Yes by the council.
I: Real reasons why you moved to Hackney?
TV: Up to finish working in the reception centre, I had been offered the accommodation in Hackney, so I moved to Hackney. And I set up the Vietnamese community because the need somewhere there to look up to them. Almost all refugees in that time they had very little English and we haven't got the community at that time. So we called the volunteers to help our people before we ask the council to help us. Someone to like fill the forms and bring them to the local offices like the DSS Housing or bring their children to the schools. A lot of work, we need to help ourselves. And that is the reason firstly the Hackney is very kind to offer more accommodation, housing for Vietnamese and certainly I worked in the reception centre for three years. I met quite a lot of Vietnamese and also I brought quite a lot of them to be settled in Hackney. So that is why. And I set up Vietnamese community in Hackney to help ourselves.
I: When did you come to Hackney?
TV: 1981
I: What did you think of Britain and Hackney at that point?
TV: We are very happy because we have freedom, we have quite lots of support by the people in Britain to help us to start our new life. And for us it is great because we can have services and my own country. So I am very happy and especially the new life for us here is very, very good to give us a chance to do something to start our new life and later on to contribute something to the new society. That is the reason I am very happy and I started to set up community straight away and part of my duty to help our people.
I: Find roots and settle down, did you feel Hackney was welcoming?
TV: The first time I am not very how do I explain, it was difficult for me to put my feet in Hackney because at that time only myself. All my family staying in Vietnam so very difficult for me to cope with new life here. Luckily I worked in the reception centre I met a lot of English friends so it is not very difficult for me to cope with the new environment to live. And I don't feel any difficulty to be settled in Hackney. And also I tried to learn more English and later on I [inaudible] to take my MA degree straight away in African Studies. I studied one year and after that I feel English is very difficult to take MA degree and so very difficult to get a job. After that. Not during the time I studies in the [inaudible] arts and English in Kingsway College in New Cross. I had a contract, a cleaning contract with the private company to do the cleaning of the offices every night for a year. So as soon as I arrive in the UK I never get any social benefit. So I tried to do something not to back the people, their money. Because I feel very happy in this country so I take the welfare only to help the people with the difficulties, but I am still young and in good health so I try to do something to live for myself and not to get the benefit.
I: Studying English and working to pay for the course. Difficult for family back in Vietnam. Were you in touch with them?
TV: Well in the 1980s it is a very hard time. We are not allowed to write anything to Vietnam and no connection with my family in Vietnam and this country. Because at that time the war between China and Vietnam and they controlled everything so it was very difficult for me. And also very worried about my family as well. Especially my background, the Vietnamese government not very keen to help my family, even I have permission from the UK Home Office for my family to come over to join me here, but my wife couldn't get visa from Vietnamese authority.
And after five years I took a chance when I was in St Marks Hospital to have a small operation for my appendix and I asked the hospital to give me a certificate to say that I was inpatient in the hospital and I asked my friend to write a letter to the Prime Minister at that time, the Queen and the Vietnamese Prime Minister, the President in Vietnam to say that Mr Vu was in hospital and have very serious operation and unless his wife and children to join him, otherwise maybe what happened to me at that time. And only one month later my family joined me in this country in Christmas 1983. It is very lucky.
I: Setting up a community organisation. Were you doing that at the same time as your English course?
TV: Yes
I: Organisation?
TV: From the beginning I have to use my home address as the office and to help our people and one year later I have address in Homerton House School with very small room that is the telephone room, something like that and we had only one table in there and you work very hard and no ground at all. Because we don't know how to get the application form and we don't know system we can have a small grant from the council for the trust. We had a volunteer to help our people and then in 1984/5 we went with another English friend and get at the time of GLC had been abolished and we asked for help and we have a one hundred thousand pounds to buy [inaudible] at that time. So that is the community centre for Vietnamese in Hackney and people from around.
And I carry on to work for the VLC as I was founder and first chairman and at the same time to work for the Vietnamese community in Hackney, particularly and also in 1990 we make a proposal to at the council to convert that public baths into our community centre in 1991 and we moved to the new centre in 1991 and at that time we had some money from the council. The VLC centre I received money from [inaudble] and from that time we know how to contact with the trust and the funders. And the first money we received from the trust for London was five thousand pounds. So we use that five thousand pounds to appoint one English co-ordinator and he was quite good to build up the Vietnamese community in Hackney and now we change the name to AnViet. And we are very proud and also the trust for London are very proud. We have five thousand. We use their money as a small grant and to build up and get this big house and we received an award from Trust for London a few years ago to congratulate us to achieve the development.
I: First grant?
TV: First grant
I: When?
TV: 1984 or 1985
I: Sum up. You started off with other volunteers?
TV: Of course
I: You volunteered your services to help in Hackney?
TV: Everything
I: You didn't have any experience of getting grants?
TV: No
I: With five thousand pound grant you could get a person with experience. Was it then easier?
TV: Our policy from the beginning is and I feel that is why we had success because working together with English people. Firstly because they know the system in this country. Secondly the English is quite difficult for us and also the house it has English staff would like to understand more about Vietnamese way of life and also we would like to know the English system also ourselves. That is why our policy from the beginning until now, we always have Vietnamese staff and English staff. Exactly fifty, fifty percent. That is why the AnViet is very stable and very good and developments for many years now.
I: Unusual?
TV: Yes a bit different between us and the other Vietnamese community, when they receive a grant. Firstly they keep it for themselves but with me I carry on to work volunteer for many years and use the grant to hire the English staff to help us and we have a property development of more money so that is the, my turn of to have a benefit after we work hard and a development for one English staff and Vietnamese staff to work together.
I: You mentioned about getting a grant, talk a little about the organisation Viet VLC what it stood for and what its aims were and how it developed as a community centre?
TV: We feel that we need the centre for Vietnamese and Indochina people to have a place to be, to have a place to work together and to celebrate our traditional festivals. Even Chinese, Vietnamese or people from Laos and Kampuchea. So I worked two years to get one hundred thousand pounds from GLC to buy this centre and later on with the help of my staff to get a grant from the LBGO for the administration of the centre and also I organised quite a lot of activity in the centre like Vietnamese and Chinese classes for the children and also the festivals and the parties and many activities in the centre at that time. And VLC centre become bigger and bigger. I resign from the Chairman and took on some trade in the work of AnViet and AnViet also at the same time growing up quite a lot. We have several contracts with employment and training in the north London, in the south London, in the central London. Even in Thamesmead we have got a grant from enterprise and employment to help Vietnamese in Thamesmead. So we have two offices, one in Hackney and one in Thamesmead. And the same administration of AnViet to set up the employment and training in Thamesmead because it is Thamesmead from my experience and also a large numbers of Vietnamese and the same in Hackney, because the Thamesmead in 1980, 1979 come away from the central London a little bit and also Thamesmead offer more houses and flats for Vietnamese and with my experience to bring quite lots of numbers of families in the reception centres to Thamesmead so that is why I am very familiar with the Vietnamese community in Thamesmead. That is why I put a bid to the south London [inaudible] to help Vietnamese in Thamesmead as well. At the same [inaudible] community work and also mother tongue schools in Thamesmead and Hackney.
I: Why did you feel there was need for another organisation for Vietnamese community?
TV: First thing at that time in 1980, 1982, 1983, the Vietnamese community in Hackney and Islington and I found that the cross boroughs it is not easy to back a plan because if you put the application to Hackney you have work in Islington as well, so you get a grant from Islington. Something like that! And also the Vietnamese community become bigger and bigger and you understand that there are the second movement from Vietnamese around the whole country to London because the fellow of the police and government at that time. So the people moved to London especially in Hackney quite a lot. That is the reason we split up Vietnamese community in Hackney into two and I chose the name of the Vietnamese community in Hackney by the name of AnViet. It means a well settled Vietnamese. That is a new name for Vietnamese community in Hackney since 1986.
I: 1992 when you moved to the present site. Why did you chose this site?
TV: It was lucky one because at that time there was on Homerton a house and school very small and I tried to find new premises, new office to AnViet and I went to Hackney town hall and very strange. A secretary at that time, James White or I forgot his name and he said we have a very big site in Anglefield Road if you are interested, come to City office to ask them to open the door for you to have a look and of course I am very interested in that building, it was very big. So after I visit the centre my English co-ordinator to sit down together with me and make a proposal to submit to the council. And that is the last grant from it is called Urban Aid or something like that from the Department of Environment to fund our project, fifty thousand pounds to convert and put it back into our centre with twenty five percent from Hackney Council. It was very lucky we got that really.
I: Partnership between everyone?
TV: Yes the Government and the Department
I: Your control?
TV: We still lease it, we try to buy, but we are waiting for the new Department. We try to put a clause in the new lease that we had the right to buy it, but I don't know if we have a chance to buy it, but we would very much like to buy it because we have another plan, a business development for Vietnamese in Hackney and also to reopen something special for Vietnamese in this society. Pottery and ceramics from Vietnam to set up here in this centre because last year we worked together with Hackney council and university of north London to develop social funds to help a project in the north Vietnam province, but we are waiting for the result of our meeting and I learn that north Vietnam is the very famous pottery work and ceramics work in Vietnam so that is why we are very keen to buy this centre to do something to bring the products from Vietnam to this country.
I: Say a little bit about what you found when you came here?
TV: It is very strange for me at that time because I never seen the public bath and laundry before I move in. At that time we have two doors, one women and one for men. And the front, the first part of the building is the laundry and also go further down to the building, two separated sides, one for women one for men and quite a lot of baths over there. And it is mainly for people to come to do their laundries and then later on they went to the bath and until now I still have a son visits us to our restaurant or our centre to see the public baths because they said that fifty, forty years ago they live in this area and it was to come to have a bath or laundry in this building. So they would like to come and have a look and try to review the changes between their time and now. And they are very lucky to see us here and they can take back their memories and also to see Vietnamese in this centre and at the same time they have tried to have taste of Vietnamese food.
I: Talk about the organisation and things you do here?
TV: Our original project is at the back of the building that is the enterprise workshop, we operate it seven years at the back of this building to let the Vietnamese to come to do the showing. And they need a place to practice clothes making before they move to the factory to work. We are very successful to do this project to help for our people get into the clothes making businesses. From the beginning, from 1985 until now we have around, over forty Vietnamese clothes making factories in Hackney and that is a first thing and the second thing with our building is in English classes. We at the same time to help the people to learn something in their careers like clothes making to learn English as well. So with some small workshops like jewellery and also they learn something in here after they work in the jewellery shop, a lot of Vietnamese work there and to have small workshop here trying to design the jewellery in the Vietnamese way and also at the same time we, they can meet with the Vietnamese and the elderly in this building.
And after two years we set up the AnViet project in this centre, but English classes is the key point to Vietnamese people because the people from Vietnam who come to this country is almost ethnic Chinese from the north Vietnam and especially quite lots of them live near the border between Vietnam and China and very low educated. No education background. So they need to learn more and more English and also to help them to cope with the welfare system in this country and at the same time to help them to contact with the employers especially in Chinese restaurants in China Town. At the same time we have a project in here to help especially the middle age people who feel it is very difficult to learn English and also to help with the young generation who have been involved with in Hong Kong. So quite a lot of things in this centre.
And the future plan for our next year is to open the catering project to, because I feel that the catering training is a big demand for all Vietnamese and Chinese restaurants, takeaways in the city and also in Hackney as well. And you see that Mare Street or Kingsland or Hackney road there are quite a lot of Vietnamese restaurants in that area, but very difficult to have cooks who have skills in doing the cooking of Chinese or Vietnamese food. So now we are working together with the School of Catering in Hackney Community Centre, work together and in the next few months we will try to organise a food hygiene courses. In last year we have organised courses already but now more demand from Vietnamese catering industries to open a few more courses in catering, in food hygiene and also restaurant licensing as well. So on the next months we are very busy to set up this project.
I: Main ways you can help the Vietnamese community to develop skills to gain employment?
TV: Our new strategy in the coming years are not concentrating on welfare any more because they are children growing up so no need to concentrate in that field. So we now open to the businesses so Vietnamese have been in this country for twenty years they have experience, they have skill in Vietnam and up to twenty years to save some money. As you know Vietnamese are not like English people to go to holiday or to go to pubs to drink and if they are unemployed they have no money to spend on the other things, but even unemployed Vietnamese they still save some money and day by day they never have a holiday, they never go to the pub and after twenty years they have saved money and now their children growing up and they can cope with the forms or some other things to bring their parents to go to the DSS or Housing. We don't need to concentrate in that field any more. So my new strategy now is the business because the experience when I visited America last year I feel that Vietnamese in America in only twenty years they developed the California, the orange Everywhere you go through, almost big Vietnamese shops and big Vietnamese restaurants and they have their own yellow pages. They have their own business telephone books and every single thing new society owns them by Vietnamese. I want to bring that experience from America to Hackney, especially as you know now with the help from the council we try to set up a little Vietnam in main street and we have got people to deal with their skill and their money to businesses in Hackney. And only last year and this year you can see that many, many shops owned by Vietnamese Hackney and in London. Only two years and I think we have over two hundred shops in London and Hackney owned by Vietnamese. Because we are also making now, the people taught the Government that there is Europe and cross making category very difficult to service and they open restaurants, takeaway, off licences, shops everywhere in Hackney. So we need to concentrate in businesses development for Vietnamese.
I: The canteen here seems more than just that?
TV: Firstly we operated the canteen in 1983 at nearly a year to move to the new centre. At that time the canteen to serve the people who were operated the workshops at the back of the building and also for students, Vietnamese and also the elderly. And then because the Vietnamese food I felt that was a very new way to go by to the market. So quite a lot of people were interested in Vietnamese food and especially people who visited Vietnam have worked in Vietnam. When they are back to England they try to get back their memories in Vietnam and Vietnamese friends to bring them to our country and in 1997 we submit the application form to planning department to change the canteen to the restaurant and we become more and more popular. And especially when the council increase the rent of this building from thirteen thousand pounds a year we have to work harder to keep the restaurant going because it is our idea from the beginning. We want to be self financial. Of course you know money is never enough. If you have more money we have more projects. If rainy days like this time the Hackney council in that. So we feel the idea of our being self sufficient is more important. So at least if we have no funding, we still have the building, we still have money to pay the rent to the council and also we still have at least part time, in the worst case at least we still have a part time worker. The money came from the fees from the canteen to the foundation, so I feel that is very good example for the community to try to do something to help themselves first before the banks for the trust or the funder to give them something because the money of the trust are the funders become harder and harder. If you don't have a good project, if you don't have money to survive during the rainy days, it is very difficult for them to exist. That is the reason we tried to keep the restaurant going well and not only to benefit of the community but also the way to because the food and also the culture are factor as well. The restaurant as the focus point for Vietnamese and also the people who are interested in Vietnamese culture to come and then we can develop more in cultural for the future. My idea that apart from catering training in the coming years I also intend to set up a research centre about Vietnamese culture for our young generation and also the people, students who are interested in Vietnamese culture to have a chance to come here to have my experience or my knowledge in Vietnamese culture to help them write a dissertation and get a PhD degree. In the past years we have around forty students to come here to do research. I had a great document, I made about Vietnamese and Vietnamese topics in general. So the long term we would like to have a research centre here.
I: Sum up work of the foundation. How many people do you currently help in a year?
TV: Well to help Vietnamese in this centre in the past more and more but roughly every year we have one thousand five hundred to two thousand come to this centre. Not only the figure but we have full services here. Everybody to come here we make a photocopy of their documents and to prove that they have a real job but not only the numbers on the paper so that is why a lot of numbers come to us. They see that we have a record of service with full document attached with their case. And also they can count how many thousand people come to us. That is the way we try to keep our records in the proper way.
I: Showing photocopies of all the documentation of the individuals, including photographs.
TV: We also have this form where they write down their name, addresses, their phone number, the case and action. We try to do and after we have done, we keep all the records here.
I: Talk about your personal life. Your family came over here. Where did you live before family came?
TV: I live at the same place since 1981 at Manor House area. I still live there. Even now family, we bought a council flat there and also I bought a new house in the same area. And my family are very successful in settlement in this country.
I: You lived in Manor House. What did you feel at that time Hackney offered you as a family?
TV: Well the big change in that way since 1980 until now, all over the twenty years I have been in Hackney so I can feel the change from the very rough boroughs in 1980 until now. Hackney has become very fashionable and also the social life has changed quite a lot from worse to better place to live and you can see that. The accommodation, housing in Hackney is in terms of prices, a lot, a lot. My flat in 1980 the council offer me to buy the right to buy at that time was only nineteen thousand pounds. And now worth over a hundred and fifty thousand pounds. It is a council flat. So you can see how changed Hackney is for twenty years. I was also director of Vietnamese Housing Association. You can see that it is very difficult to find pieces of land in Hackney now to build something. It is totally changed. And also with the effort of the workman of our local society have tried to build Hackney a safe place to live and so education as well. When my daughter came to Hackney she joined the primary school in Manor House and every day she come back to home she cry and cry because of bullying in the school and I had to change that, her school from the Woodbury Downs to St Mary's in Haringey. And also another school was the same, but now education in Hackney is also, even better than the other boroughs, it is much, much better and also the safe for the people to live and also crime is also reduced I think.
I: Do you have religion?
TV: I am Catholic, but I taught philosophy and I studied philosophy especially Confucius. So I improved for myself and I can find the work in my heart not the work in the church. So the religions is important, but not important if you are not improved yourself. So you come to praise god, but back home we have the [inaudible] to live in harmony and to follow the light of what in your heart, not in the church.
I: Have you always been catholic?
TV: Yes
I: Tell me about your children and what they have achieved?
TV: I can tell you that not only my families but almost all Vietnamese children all around the world become tough everywhere, especially in America. In this country in 1991 I remember that ITV television also had research about who was the top in their classes, in their form and they put the Vietnamese children at the top and there was a picture about Vietnamese education in England. And take my family for example. My children came to this country, two daughters came in this country around nine or ten years old and the last year of primary school and after two years moved to the high school and they can cope with the education system in high school straight away and when they came to GCSE my children, eleven or twelve had grade A or grade B. and my first daughter she is an architect and is teaching in Kingston University and my second daughter she works part time and also part time in Westminster University. And now she only twenty seven years old she is director of development of the Maidenhead and District Housing Association and my son graduated from the university and is a computer man. So that is one example. Because Vietnamese always put the education on top and they always do education their children, take the chance to concentrate on education and then they will have a bright future. So that is a general idea of all Vietnamese families and especially they put the Chinese or Vietnamese, they put education of teacher the second place after the King or after the State man, before the parent. So we follow our ancestors back to educate our children. So that is a good contribute to our next generation to the new society. And I am very proud about my children or Vietnamese children in general in every way they live now. They are very successful in education and job. And if any company to recruit Vietnamese please think of the Vietnamese workers who work very hard and also very good behaviour. So that is why we
are a success.
I: Could you explain?
TV: I mean from the beginning when I arrived in Hackney as I explained, it was a rough borough, very difficult to live because quite a lot of crime and also the environment was not very good, but day by day it has improved quite a lot and also the Vietnamese they like to live in Hackney because of the multi cultural, mixed with many other nationalities and also they can go to market, they can find many similar Vietnamese food in Hackney and especially in Hackney easy to go to the city. And also they have many possibility for them to do some slave job. It mean in the first making businesses. It is very little money. But they work for ten hours and fifteen hours to get twenty pounds or thirty pounds to make a shirt like this. But they sell the shirt in the shop for ten, fifteen pounds, it depends on the mark, but better than nothing. They work very hard and try to save money for their future. And now you can see that they have build their businesses quite a lot in Hackney and now to live in Harmony of a lot of people in their area, they can achieve that because they feel they live in harmony. I don't think that we have a great difficult with our neighbours because Vietnamese are always very kind and very friendly with their neighbours always to make friends, like a birthday party or new year they making some food at home and give it to the neighbours. And we have got four thousand Vietnamese in Hackney so every family to do the same. So we feel that Hackney is our country, even with our different in division or different in the way of life, but we still feel that. Hackney is a part of our home.
I: Expectations of Hackney in the future?
TV: My expectation is to let our community become bigger and bigger in doing businesses and especially our next generation to work harder and also at the same time to contribute something for the new society in their skills and intelligence to contribute to our new society. At the same time to keep our old culture. That is key that we improve ourselves and live in harmony with the people. That is the wishes for my generation and also my younger generation in this country.
