Oral History Interview - Kenrick Hanson

Video File

09/11/2017

2020.6

Video recording of an oral history interview with Kenrick Hanson, who was born in Jamaica and moved to the UK in 1962. Kenrick went on to become Mayor of Hackney 1984–1985.

7 x video file (.wmv), recording of an oral history interview with Kenrick Hanson. Total length - 1 hour, 15 minutes, 14 seconds.

Hanson, Kenrick

No

TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW WITH KENRICK HANSON

Q. When and where were you were born? [2017.a_ 00:16]

KH. My name is Kenrick Edward Hanson, born 2 May 1939 in Jamaica. Leave Jamaica 24th of March, arrived in England 24th of March, 1962.


Q. How did you come to Hackney? [2017.a_ 00:45]

KH. When I came to England I came to Southeast London, to Peckham. My cousin was living there. So, I got a job up in North London. My cousin said it’s a good way to come from Peckham to North London, and so we worked out something and we got a room to let in Stoke Newington. That’s after we’d gotten married actually, in 1965. So, we came to North London to live. That’s when I ended up in Hackney. And some people say, by now you’re Mr. Hackney, and I say, of course, all these years, Mr. Hackney. Yeah.

Q. What were your impressions of Hackney when you came here? [2017.a_01:38]

KH. At that time, it was fascinating. I mean … it wasn’t as vibrant as it is now, but it was good. Hard times, but very good, very hard times, but very good. And I’m not one of those to sit back, I always like to get myself involved for my work and find something else to involve myself in. That’s what I did.


Q. What kind of work did you do? [2017.a_02:09]

KH. First, when I came to this country, my cousin who was working in an engineering firm, that was down in Peckham, Pomeroy Street, I think it was called, Wickery’s Limited[?], and I came one day, I think it was a Wednesday, and he said “I’ve got a job for you, you can come tomorrow, start tomorrow.” I said, no way, I was too tired. I said, I couldn’t go and do any work, you know, just as I came over, to start working, I was too tired. So, he said, “all right, the following day, you can come to work.”

So, we went to work and I worked there for quite a while, Wickery’s Limited[?], and then when I moved to North London, I found the distance to be so much, so I got a job with British Rail, doing shunting at [inaudible] up in North London, and it was very cold. When I came here in 1962 it was cold, it was snowy, it was smoggy, it was fog. You’re going to work and you couldn’t see in front of you.

I remember one stupid thing, and I think it was stupid actually at the time, my cousin said, “Okay, we’re going to drive to work,” and I said but Steve, we can walk it, we don’t have to drive. He said, “No, we’re going to drive.” He was one of those guys and he said, “No, we’re going to drive.” I said, how are you going to see. He said, “you put your head to that window and if I’m coming to a lead post, just tell me to turn around.” It was fascinating going to work with him in that car, and yeah, it was bad. I mean, when you look to see in front of you, you can’t see more than so…I thought, my gosh, is this what I’ve come to in England? And when I looked on the roof of the buildings and I see smoke coming out there, we used to say, wow, there is a lot of factories in England, and then someone said to me, “they are not factories. It’s people’s living accommodation.” I said, what do you mean? The smoke coming? they said, “yes, it’s a coal fire.” So, you know, it was quite a lot of memories in those days, yeah.

Going back, anyway, when I said I was working with British Rail for 18 months and it was bad, when I say bad, not the job itself, if you do shunting, you’ve got to be out in the yard all those cold times. Believe you me, the wagons put together to take the materials and goods and everything to different part of the country, that’s what I was doing. In actual fact, at certain times, I was enjoying it, you know, to see that this is what you do, doing shunting.

So, after a while, I got a bit fed up with it. I had to get up too early in the morning to go to work. One minute past twelve, I’ve got to be at work. I thought, this is too much. Anyway, I gave up that and got a job at London Underground. So, I started to work at London Underground, in the engineering department. And I finished my time working with London Underground for 29 years and so much months, and I can’t remember how many days, which was fascinating. Yeah.


Q. What was fascinating about it? [2017.a_05:48]

K.H. The things that you do. When you work with the Underground. First, they started me out as a labourer, which I hated completely, because you’ve got to sweep up the place, blah, blah, blah, and I said but I can do mechanical things. And some other guys said to me, “Ken, you will get there.” So, I bite the bullet and do the labouring and gradually I am able to start to work with fitters that work on the trains, put the trains right. I thought, wow, yeah. I am getting to the right place now. So, I worked with London Underground for quite a while, doing repair jobs, repairing the trains, putting the trains together.

And I remember one guy say, “when you finish working on the train, you like to go on the platform and see the train coming along that you worked on, and you say, wow, that’s the train I worked on.” I never do that, but it was something good, because you’re working for the public, the safety of the public and you make certain everything is right. And we were a good workforce, yeah, we liked that.


Q. Can you tell me a bit more about how you became involved in local politics? [2017.a_07:04]

KH. Local politics, yeah. I’m always that inclined I would think, because when I was back home, when I used to work at the Richmond Llandovery Sugar Factory, in them days, it was Bustamante Trade Union and the PNP, People’s National Party, and I said I’m going to get myself involved in that. Although I didn’t, but every time I work, I always show the interest as I’d like to do that.

When I came to England, I thought well, there is some good things happening and there is some bad things, and I would like to be in the middle of that to see what I can do. Some people was badly treated and I don’t like that. And when I was working with London Underground, the committee that was there they weren’t really representing the people or us, as I think they should, stand up for them in a certain way. And I said, I’d like to join and the guys in the shop nominate me because of one thing: I saw something happen to a man, he was a Scotsman, and the English person that was working on the job this Scotsman was going to take, when that English person retired, he was in a good pay band, and I understand that this other guy, the Scots guy, who was supposed to take over what he was doing, they come to the chairman and say, “No, the governor said you can’t pay him that” I said what? You must be joking. I said no. He is supposed to get the same pay that the Englishman was getting, because he is doing the same job. And they were saying, “No, no, no. The governor...” I was not in the committee then, but I make a big stand about it, and they decided that’s what the governor said he’s going to be paid, I said, no way. So, I ring up this head office and I said something wrong is happening here. I want you to come up and sort it out.

And he came up, they came up. The chairman and the secretary of the union came up and said, “what is happening?” And I explained to him what was happening. He said, “no way”. He is going to do the same job that he was doing and going to get less pay? No way.” And then he turned around to the local shop chairman and said, “what are you doing about it?” I said, they wasn’t doing anything about it. So, he said, “I’m going to the office now to the manager,” and I said, can I come? They said, “No, Ken. You stay up here.” When I came back, they said, “We sorted it out.” I said, when you say sorted out, what happened? He said, “He will be able to do that job and he will get paid for it.” And that went around the shop floor to say that because of me, Ron, his name was Ron, was getting the same pay this guy was getting.

And so, they said, “Ken, there is going to be a shop election in two months’ time. We want you.” I said, well, it’s up to you. So, they nominated me to be a member of the committee, and then they elected me to be the Joint Shop Secretary, because we have different trade unions in there, and they said, we’ll make him Joint Shop Secretary. That’s how I started getting involved in that, but coming in Hackney now, as a local person, and I got involved with a school, because Princess May School in Stoke Newington, on Stoke Newington Road, my daughter was going there and they wanted two parent governors at the time, and I went to the school and I started to ask questions of the teachers. I said what’s happening? And they said they wanted two governors, and not many black people were there. I don’t think four black people were at the meeting. I don’t think so.

But when I was asking the questions, the other parents who came to the meeting, said, “at least we found one governor now. We only need another one,” and then they said, “which person?” and the white people said, “That man. We only want one more, because we think he’s asking the right questions.” So, I think that was 1969, somewhere about there, and they let me be a parent governor. So… [2017.b_00.00] I go to the school regularly, check what’s happening, and I notice one day, I go to the school and there is a little boy standing in the corner, a black boy standing in the corner and I said to him, why are you standing out here? He said, “Well, Miss said that I should stand out here because I wasn’t behaving myself.” And I went in and said, what is he doing there? Why is he out there? And they told me, he is a bit naughty. And I say, is that a reason to put him outside, standing in the corner? And this teacher said to me, “that boy is very bright, but he is rude.” I said, rude? Have you called his parents? They said, “we sent several letters to the parents and she never came.” That was a one-parent family, it seemed like, and I said, I know it’s not the school policy, but can you give me the address? In time, it was cold and they gave it to me in one evening, and I put on my hat and my coat and I went.

That wasn’t very far from where I live, and I knocked the door, and I introduced myself to this person. They said, “you can’t stand out there, come inside. It’s too cold,” and I went inside. I said, by the way, I’m a parent governor at the school up there and did you receive a letter from the school about your son that you should come to school? And she said, “yes, but I’ve been working and I haven’t got the time.” I said, well, you know, some of these things you have to find time for. I said, I’ve got children. I have my child at school and I’m working, and if I can’t get there, my wife will get there. And she said, “all right.” And I leave it like that for a while.

When I go back to the school, I ask the teacher, did the parents come to see? They said, “Mr. Hanson, I don’t know what you did, but she came”. And then she took me inside and she said, “we have stars on the wall,” stars, and she said, “one of those stars belongs to that young man. Can you point it to me, which one it is?” And actually, because they told me that he was bright, I look on the second and I said, it would probably be that one. They said, “no, Mr. Hanson. He is top.” I said, what? And you know, even up to today, I’ve been wondering, what has become of that young man. I wish I had followed it up. When I leave from being a parents’ governor from that school, I wonder if I did follow up to see his progression through them times, but I just hope that it lead to something good for him.

And so, I became that much involved and my daughter moved, and when she started to go to secondary school, it was… Clapton Girls School. She started to go there and I also became parent governor at that school. And then I became a councillor in 1982, and they nominated me to be authority governor at the school. So, I became authority governor at the Kingsmead School and Daubeney School, and also, it was the Homerton House at that time, which is now City Academy, it was Homerton House. So, we’ve always been involved, but we had an MP that used to be in Hackney Central, he is now Lord Clinton-Davis, and he said to me, “Ken, I think you should become a councillor,” and I said, a councillor? He said, “yeah. I think you should become a councillor.”

Matter of fact I was the Tenants Association secretary of Kingsmead Estate. So, I have a regular surgery for people to come to see me, and when they come, they come with a complaint for the MP. So, I always take down the complaints and give it to him, and that’s why he said to me, “you should become a councillor,” and then I said okay then. And I’m introduced to the Labour Party and nomination came in, and somebody nominated me, and then there was a selection process. The process came through and then yes, I was nominated and I became a councillor in 1982. And so that’s why I’ve been involved ever since with the local authority. So, that’s where it starts.


Q. Authority governor, what does that mean exactly? [2017.b_04:54]

KH. Authority governor is the local authority nominates you to be the governor of certain schools, you know, and I was privileged to be the governor of three at the time. It could have been more. There was Kingsmead, Daubeney and Homerton Schools. I was the authority governor at those schools.


Q. So, can you tell me a bit more about being a councillor and what that was like? [2017.b_05:27]

KH. That was some good fun. My first year, when there was election in 1982, they used to use this thing called popular votes and my first year, and I didn’t know this, anyway, the two of us who was Labour candidate in the King’s Park ward, I think also it’s because I was involved with the Tenants Association, in Hackney, in Kingsmead, and in general I was invited to the Tenants Association anyway to go and give a talk, and so when it come election, and I didn’t know, it was the chief-executive who said to me, “do you know that you have one of the highest popular votes?” I said, what? What that means? He said, “yes” and I looked at it and even my colleague, we were joint together, I got a lot more vote than his, and that’s why they said to me, “you have the popular vote. You’ve got one of the highest popular votes.” And before election that I run in that area, every year, the popular vote goes up…

And I can get on with people very easily. If you’re a bit snobby, then I’ll tell you that you are snobby, you know, and so this was me. And so yes, I got involved with the council, and when I was elected in 1982, that first year, I was unable to attend house and committee meetings. They were going to select the chair and secretary, and because I was really, really good at the Tenants Association in Kingsmead, and follow-up housing problems, they said, “Ken, your name went forward to be chairman of housing, but in the end, you didn’t get it, but you got vice-chair of housing.” I said, what? So, that’s good. The first year that I was in, 1982 to 1983, and in that same year, 1983, someone said, “they are looking for a deputy-mayor and your name went forward to be a deputy-mayor.” I said, huh?

So, my name went forward for the deputy-mayor and I was selected to be, or elected to be, the deputy-mayor of Hackney in that year. And the following year, 1984-1985, that was the year when they said, “we want to nominate you to be the mayor of Hackney.” I said, wow. And I said to my colleagues, but if you think, you know, I am able to do it. They said, “Ken, you can.” So, they nominated me to be, or elected me to be the mayor of Hackney in 1984-1985, which was absolutely great. Absolutely great. It helped me to open my eyes a lot, because it helped me to see the community, and that’s what I wanted, to see the community, to get out there, see the community and be part of the community, know what people is talking about, et cetera. So yeah, it was marvellous, and apart from that I was able to go outside of the borough to represent the council whenever I was supposed to be in the city.

I remember going to the city and I think they said it was Hackney’s turn to address these big business people inside the city. I thought, somebody write a speech for me. When I got to the meeting, I started looking around this big table…one black person - that was me. And I look at the speech that was presented for me to read. I look at it and I just put it back in my pocket, and hear what was being said at the meeting from those who were there, and I picked up everything and I thought, well, as a person coming from a borough like Hackney, which is multicultural, and the first thing I point out to them was I didn’t hear you say anything much about the community living around you. You are the city and we are just on your doorstep, and the problem we have with our local authority, in regard to housing and jobs and things, you wasn’t saying anything about that, those people sitting around the table. And I really had my time, I would say, at that meeting, and I really put my foot down. That speech that was written to me, I didn’t say it to them, that speech that was written to me was of no use, to what they were portraying at the meeting and after we finished talking we had refreshment and quite a few of them came along and said, “you know, you were right.” I said, well can you do something about it? You know, there is young people in our borough that needs to be employed in the city, et cetera, et cetera. Do something in our borough so that they can come and enjoy the life that some of you are enjoying.

So yes, it was good. It was good. I had a fabulous year. People asked me, “did you enjoy it?” I said, I enjoyed it. “Was it hard work?” I said, it wasn’t hard work. If you’re doing something and you enjoy it, it’s not hard work. I was enjoying that. I was enjoying being a mayor and enjoying being a local councillor, you know, in that sense, and it lead from there. I sit in many top… well, I say top, committees, right. I was chair of Social Services. I was chair of Direct Services, and quite a few other things that was involved in the council, which like I said, it’s opened my eyes quite a lot and yes I enjoyed my time here, in Hackney, as a local councillor.

And matter of fact, you know, people still call me. I walk out on the street sometime and people say, “Mr. Mayor.” I said, but that’s quite a long time ago, and they say, “No, you’re still our mayor.” And somebody sent me a cut-out a few months ago and he said, “You know something, I had this picture [2017. c_00.00] over my bed head, from the local paper, it was from the Hackney Gazette, pinned over my bed head. I am involved in other community activities and they sent it to his secretary and said, “Send that to Mr. Hanson.” They sent it to me. But it was wonderful. There was people who were a bit worried though when I said, I want to visit Ridley Road Market as a Mayor. They said, “but, we have to get the police to come with you because you are going to wear the chain.” I said, what, you think they are going to rob the chain? I said, not in Ridley Road Market, not in Hackney, they wouldn't touch this chain, they won't do it. I walked and the police was there, but they kept a distance and I would go to the stores and talk to people etc., etc.

Then I said to them, right, I am going on Kingsland Waste, Kingsland Waste on Saturday was a big market as well. In actual fact I get some of my tools that I use to fix up my house and my garden, I bought it at Kingsland Waste, everything you want was on Kingsland Waste. I went down there with my chain as well and greeted people, who I had known, he said, “That was good?” And so yes, I enjoyed being a councillor. I enjoyed being a mayor, deputy mayor and a mayor in Hackney, yeah.


Q. Can you describe what is it like to wear those chains? [2017.c _01:30]

KH. Yeah…it shows the, what you call it, prestige, that local authority have. In actual fact we went to a function when all the Mayors meet up, I think it was Waltham Forest Town Hall, where all the London Mayors met. We all line up there and somebody used the phrase, “that's the chain gang, that is the chain gang.” You look over there and see everyone that was lined up, and everyone was from different local authorities, with our chains on and someone said, “yes that's the chain gang.” So you know when I meet some of them and if I introduce my wife or somebody, I say well, that's part of the chain gang, yeah it was good, meet some good people.


Q. During your time as Mayor there were quite a lot of events both local and national that happened? [2017.c_02:29]

KH. One was the poll tax, the year of the poll tax. I remember the community in Hackney saying we are not going to pay no poll tax. We didn't agree with it and the council didn't agree with it anyway. The Conservative members of the council were saying, well the government is setting the bill, I said, well it’s a tory poll tax. They said well you got to pay blah, blah, blah if you don't decide then we are going to let them take you to court. I said, well you can go ahead, take us to court, but we are not going to pay it. I was supposed to go to Jamaica in 1985, that's where I came from, Jamaica and I wanted to take my daughter with me. I said, well, I am going to Jamaica and the chief executive said to me, “but you must expect a call anytime, because if we decide to set a poll tax, you will have to come back as a mayor.” I said, “Okay, I will come back” and I gave them the address of the local authority in [inaudible] local council, where they could contact me and if there is such thing happens. And I never get a call so I said good.

But as soon as I came back it was, this big meeting and we are in the council chamber, I tell you something, I could feel the vibe, because up in the gallery and around us, the building shook, I would think. We are not paying the poll tax, blah, blah, blah, blah. I remember when the verdict came, because they want to charge us for failing the poll tax. I think it was Andrew Puddephatt, was the leader of the council and I think it was, if I can remember rightly. He said our members, I have got some news. And we all jumped over it, because even some members were saying to me, look you better go and agree to the poll tax, to pay it. I said no way. He said but if you don’t and they charge you, you will have to sell your house and such. I said they are not going to do it. It's not going to happen. And they said, well I don't know how you can be so brave and says it’s not. I say it's not going to happen, it's not going to happen. And when Andrew, the leader at the time, I think it was Andrew, who said we got some news for you just come in. And he said, we will not be paying any poll tax. You know we will not pay what the government was saying.


Q. [2017. d_00:00] So you are saying we are not going to pay poll tax?

KH. We are not going to be surcharged, I think it is, but we won that battle. So it was jubilation inside the council chamber, and you could feel the place vibrate, when it was happening and I said good. So that was that.


Q. Could you just explain a little bit about the poll tax? [2017.d_00:25]

KH. I think it was a tax that the council was putting on local authority. I think local authority would be charging the residents or the tenants so much money, to pay this poll tax. It was unfair, it was an unfair tax. In the end everybody realised it was an unfair tax. And something that is unfair, I don't like it. I really don't like it. So most of us, well the Labour Party, we all was at one accord, and I think the Liberal as well, but tory was the one who was really… because they have people in parliament, they have government in power, and you know they think we could do this. But in the end we survived it and we said we are not going to, not going to give into it and we didn't give into it, so within the council and, yeah.


Q. We found a lovely photograph of you standing outside the Town Hall waving at a truck filled with food for the Miners’ Strike. [2017. d_01:34]

KH. The Miners’ Strike, yes, I went in that march, the Miners’ Strike, and that was a powerful thing that was. Again, when people are disadvantaged, those who decide to stand-up for what is right and in the end when you look to see today what happened to the miners and their community, it’s a shocking thing and at that time it was a very shocking thing to know what was happening, and what was going to happen to the miners. And so we stand as a council, stand in solidarity with the miner’s people, come outside. I think they presented me with a miner’s lamp as well, when they came down, it’s in the [inaudible] or somewhere but yes it was worthwhile doing.

To look back now and to see, if you are living in a community that is vibrant and together, and in the end you see something happening, they are going to destroy that community, you will do what you can to try and protect it. I think that's what the miners were doing, trying to protect their livelihood, and other people’s livelihood. In the end we can see the demise of the miners and see what's happening now to those communities now, which is a shame.


Q. Can you explain a little bit about what the Hackney community did to support this or address it? [2017. d_03:13]

KH. In relation to the miners or in general?


Q. With the miners’ strike. [2017. d_03:17]

KH. Yeah, well I think most of the people in Hackney was against what the government was doing. Hackney is a solid rock, when you come to people's liberty, and especially old Hackney is a multicultural borough, it shows, and people stood black and white and say, well if that's happening to the miners, what could happen to other areas of our communities and things like that. So people supported that, it was good.


Q. Can you tell me specifically what they did? [2017. d_03:54]

KH. Well, if we have a meeting at the Town Hall, people would come. I think some people have other protest groups in the borough, to say we are supporting the miners etc. and so people go out and support the miners. It's not that it was council members only, but members of the Hackney communities would stand up and say, well you know it is unfair so they will support it.


Q. Obviously in your time, there were also some other things you did, anything specific that you want to mention? [2017. d_04:37]

KH. Yes, there is something. I think just behind this building is a cycle track, you go straight here from Reading Lane, straight over to London Fields. That was the first cycle track in Hackney. That's one of the things I was looking for, I know I have got a picture. My son even put it on the computer. I said find that picture because I want to send it down here, he couldn't find it, but Hackney Museum, Hackney Gazette must have it somewhere. And it was the first cycle road in Hackney, that cycle road. I opened it. I ride a bike, I pushed back from there straight to the end of London Fields, so that was the first cycle road here in the borough, which I am always proud of.

I know my bigger son, he put it on somewhere and he says, that's the Mayor on his bike. I said to him, see if you can find that picture for me I want to take it on here, he just can't find it. Somewhere it is, I can't find it. But yeah, that's some memorable thing that I know, I enjoyed doing again, because I think the last time I rode a bike was in about 1964, in Peckham and New Cross. I was going from work and it got damaged, since then I haven't rode a bike until that day, in 1984 or 1985, when I became Mayor, to open that cycle track on the bike, he said, “Are you sure you can ride?” I said, once you ride a bike before you will ride again, so I jump on the bike and ride it to the end of the London Fields, yes.


Q. You also gave us a little clipping of a very interesting event called Bumping the Mayor, could you tell me a little bit more about that? [2017. d_06:32]

KH. Yes. This was some fun. I didn't realize this was going to happen. And I said, we are going to take it to the border of the borough, that's right by near to new Spitalfields Market, yeah, that's the border, right --. He said, “Oh Mr. mayor we have to do the bumping of the mayor.” I said, what that means? Then lift me up on, it was, my wife was there that day as well, it was such a laugh, it was good yes, bumping of the mayor. Yes and actually, until that time I didn't realize that was the border between Hackney and Waltham Forest, it was so close, so, yes. I keep wondering when they have to do other mayor’s like this since then, I haven't heard anyone come up and say they did the bumping, or we did the bump. But yeah it was all good fun, nice, thank you.


Q. We also found a clipping of you presenting an award, I think Alex Pascall. [2017.d_07:48]

KH. Which one is that?


Q. Alex Pascall from the Notting Hill Carnival, you remember that?

KH. Oh my gosh, Alex Pascall, yes, oh wow, that's a long time ago. I can’t believe it, you know so many things happened there. Alex Pascal yes, maybe it’s London, yes I remember. Alex Pascal is a good guy for radio. He was wonderful, really wonderful man. Oh, yes, I remember this alright. Yeah, that's the picture. I haven’t got one developed you know, I have to ask the boys to do one for me.


Q. What was it like to do these events where you had to present an award? [2017. d_08:53]

KH. Oh it was good. When I get involved in the community I am not there looking for this, but when these things do happen, you appreciate it. I do appreciate those things, anyway when it does happen, so it was good. I remember being into the studio at Alex Pascall and it is in Marylebone Road when we had an interview with me in his studio as well. He was a good radio man Alex Pascall, he would get to you, he would get to people when he broadcast. Few weeks ago I was in Southeast London giving a talk about Mr.Sam King, you heard about Sam King the Windrush man, and Alex Pascall’s name came up there, and it’s after so many years, so yeah.


Q. Can you also tell me what it was like working in the Town Hall building [2017.d_10:08]

KH. Well, someone say that we work in the Town Hall, well I say no I don't work in a Town Hall. I know I have been involved in the Town Hall. I said where I work is where I get paid, like my workplace with the transport, I get paid. At the Town Hall there is good times and there is bad times, in regards to things that happens. I mean on them days actually, when you are in the Town Hall as a Mayor or a local councillor, we get an allowance, attendance allowance then. It's not like today where my children, you just say, but granddad or dad rather, you have been able to appoint people for thousands of pounds and you just get an allowance to go to meeting. I say well, that's what the job requires, so we go by that. But it was good. There are some good things and some bad things, I would say in regards to involvement.

I am going to make this one quite clear that when I say bad things, I mean, I remember we sought an education committee, and it was supposed to do the cut of education budget. I said, you know something, no, you can’t cut education budget, we probably can cut anything, but not education budget, mustn’t be done. I remember we went to a pre-meeting, and that is one of the longest pre-meeting we ever had, because another member was trying to say, “Well, Ken we have to do the budget.” I said, Well, if you have to do it, you are going to do it without me, because I am not going to support it. I stick on it and we get up from the meeting, we reach to do it and they come back in, we back and say, they come back with, let’s try one, I think they tried about three more times to see if I could agree with them [2017.e_00:00] And the education committee cut their education budget and I said no. I say, you know what's going to happen? The first thing going to happen if we cut the education budget is youth facilities. Youth facility will be badly damaged and I am not going to sit down here and agree with that. I can see what happen, I said, now we will find other ways to provide. Some time I go back and think, you used to go youth clubs, they are not at youth club anymore, they are on the street now and it developed from that and we could see what's happening even today, not enough facilities for young people to go and do what they want to do. I don't say what they want to do, or have anything to do it, but exercise, do exercise or whatever saying, you know do something that educational and everything, instead of have nothing to do. My old people used to say, the devil always find work for idle hands, and this is what is happening now. I am afraid probably it's too late for some of our young people. I think I didn't like that.

While I was at a committee meeting, because I already said at the pre-meeting that no way I am going to support it, we went in and it went to the committee, who was in favor of it, who was against, I was against, my hand was up and in the balcony there is a lot of people and they are showed, Oh Mr Hanson, he is the only one that stand up against that. It went and I didn't really like it. And then what hurt me most ,when I said it doesn't make sense now me staying in the committee meeting any longer, I think I better just go home now because what I wanted to do is gone, then somebody run down the stairs and say, Councillor Hanson, hold on a minute. I said what is it? This person, councillor I wouldn’t call his name, he don’t give me any permission to call his name so I am not calling his name, came down and said, “Do you know what just happened a while ago, out there with the Jewish educational budget?” I said, what happened? “The Jewish members saying, well you can't cut the Jewish education budget and they didn't.” That hurt me so bad, I say you know something I better get home quickly. I just went home. And it's really hurt me and that man, he was so mad about it, he said imagine Councillor Hanson just put his hand up and says you shouldn't cut education, and yet he didn't do it. I didn't like it.

The next one was, the council had got a hung council, the council we didn’t have a majority. That came about when we had the question about a pedophile that was working with the council. I sat down at home watching the news and see when news flash came up that a member of Hackney council staff was involved in blah, blah, blah with young people. I got in touch with him, I send an email out to our former chief executive. I said how comes that is on the news, without us members knowing anything about it, why is that?

I remember he said, well it's something that happened. And so quite a few of us decided that there must be an investigation into this. Some of us were threatened, well, first, the leader at the time, I am not going to call the leader’s name because again I don't get any permission to call his name, saying we will have an investigation, but we will have it indoors. I said no way. I said no way, this going to happen. It's going to be a public inquiry into this allegation, and bring down some members of the Labour Party who had their head office somewhere down in Shoreditch. They come and they said, well there will be an inquiry, but it’s going to be in house. I said, I couldn't care less what you are saying, it cannot be in house, it has got to be a public inquiry into this.

And so we had these meetings and with the support, it was Selma versus Labour members who said we cannot have it. 17 of us, it was 18 and one was prohibited to join with the others and they went back with him so it was 17 of us, plus we have the members of the Tory party and the Liberal join with us and say, well there got to be a public inquiry, into the situation in regards to the abuser for young people in here. And so because of that, therefore, and I remember at night and they said, somebody says, if you vote tonight against this, you will be expelled from the Labour Party. I say, well, I won't lose any sleep, I will go to my bed and I will sleep as good as anything, but I am going to stand up against that. And so the 17 of us plus the others and so as the time come, we have a hung parliament, because the council didn't have majority. So we have a hung parliament. That was I think was the first hung parliament in Hackney and that's come about that thing that the abuser for young people in here.

Yeah those are some of the bad things and end up in the good things that happened in the council that I put my foot down on, I think it was right at the time and I still believe it is right at the time. The report came and it found out that yes, these young people is abused by certain person and, again, I will not use the name of the person who was charged, but we all know he was and you know. I was going to Church one day and a lady stopped me, a white lady stopped and said, “Mr. Hanson, you know this person usually come by, in my house that I know. Every weekend or every Friday, he says, oh you are going down to [inaudible] to meet friends. And it’s only when it came out, about what was happening here, that she realized that this person was going down to this place. She said, “I know you don’t know me but I know you and I am telling you, that this person used to come by me, and it's somebody that I know, and when he is going out, he say popping on call to us. What he says going on the place and I didn't think until when it all come out.” She said that's where it was gone as well. You know, so I had to shake my head. Today, if I see the lady I couldn’t remember who she was, but she know me and she saw me and she said, “Mr. Hanson what you did was right, what you members of a council did was right.”

And so that's what happened, it became a hung council at the time. It was not a good thing. It was one of the things that hurt me most to know that young people was being treated in that way. Today I am still sad, because there is, and I remember someone had died I think as well, because of the illness that they have after what happened. [2017.f_00:00]


Q. Is there anything that you feel particularly proud of, or anything that you feel like you have achieved throughout your time as a councillor? [2017.f_00:13]

KH. Well, yes, something I probably have left out, the main thing of my life since I have come to the UK, and is that I got married a long time ago over 50 what is it, now 52 years since we married. Happiest moment of our lives, I would say now is, the four children that we have, a daughter and three sons. And you know something, I would go out sometime and I would do a little joke, that was some time ago when I was Mayor. I took my daughter with me, Angela. We were in the back of the car and the chauffeur said to me, “Mr. Mayor, how many children have you got?” ,I think it was Harry the driver, I said Harry, “It's four children, three boys and a girl,” and Angie was at the back, she said, “dad, a girl and three boys” because she was the first. I didn't know so that teach me a lesson. Everywhere I go and somebody ask, sir how many children have you got? I say four a girl and three boys, I will never forget that, she really pulled me up badly about it, but yes, we have four children and we are happy about it. It has extended now to four children and six grandchildren, five boys and a girl. We are very happy with them. Till yesterday I was doing the school run for my granddaughter, to pick up my granddaughter at school.

Those are the things that, in my life, those are my main asset of everything else. I think we had a very close family knitting. I would always say to people, and not everybody have this sort of philosophy, but I would always think that it's good to grow your children in the right way, especially when you have grandchildren, help the family, help the mother and dad of those children to grow them up in the right way. I am very pleased to say that, so far that's good, because we meet regularly at my house. Sometimes it’s 13 of us in total, and sometimes we meet at home, most, not all the Sundays, but certain occasions, all of us are at home. But most Sundays, my daughter and our three sons would be at our house. We have dinner almost, when they come from Church they come here, Valentine and his family will come when they can, because they are busy people as well, so they can't make it every Sunday like Angie could do, of course Angie drives, but Valentines don’t drive. It’s one of the best asset that I have ever had, the family. Other members of the family, we try to keep very close to one another.

It’s encouraging to know that parents and grandparents can be part of the family, to help to grow the children in the right way. Sometimes it hurts when they hear someone say that, I haven't seen my grandchildren for donks. I am not living far from them, and to me it’s not right. I had to grow up my grandchildren, I grew up my children the way in which I think they should, they are nobody as friendly with their children than I am, but they know, there is a line and the grandchildren, they know there is a line that they cannot cross. When they reach that line, they have to stop and think, and they don't cross that line with daddy and mommy. We are friends, but we can also be strict and say well, there are certain things that you cannot do, you shouldn't do. When you become a man or a woman and you want to run shop, but if you teach them early, to be respectful and blah, blah, blah, blah, then it will grow in them, it will grow in them. And that's like I said, that's one of the asset that I have, yes great asset.


Q. We talked about a lot of the really great, important things you have done in work and as a councillor, as a Mayor, but during your time in Hackney, what would you do for entertainment? [2017.f_04:50]

KH. Entertainment, I know I have been invited out quite a lot of times, but I have got a past time activity that I do and if you want to call it entertainment, it is. I am a keen gardener and I cultivate a lot of things. It's not in Hackney, it’s in Waltham Forest, big size allotment, and so I grow a lot of things. People say to me but Mr. Hanson you still do that? I say, yes it’s my pride and joy. Especially this year, I grow so much vegetables, and I give away so much vegetables. I don't sell, I just give away things plant and give it, I love to do it so that's one of my past-times.

But apart from that, even when I was a councillor I was involved with other community activities. At the moment, I am the Chairman of the Association of Jamaicans (UK) Trust. And I am also the Chairman of the North London branch. I am also a member of the Friends of the Heart Foundation of Jamaica Limited here in this country. Also, again, I am the Chair of the North and East London Branch, which, especially for the Heart Foundation, we raised a lot of money to send to Jamaica to, we don't send, we used to send the money to Jamaica, but the money seemed as if it was going haywire so we said no, we stopped doing that. We said to the Heart Foundation in Jamaica, if you have an equipment to buy, and if we can afford to buy it let us know, send us the invoice. If we can't buy it we will contribute to it. We used to do a lot of charity things, fundraising things. We used to walk from Victoria Park along the River Lea to Tottenham Hale, right along the River Lea, and raise money. That was one of our good fundraising thing for Friends of the Heart Foundation, the Association of Jamaican, we celebrate the independence, because when we get independence that same year, the association was formed in England. The Association of Jamaicans (UK) Trust is one of the longest serving community groups in there, so I get my entertainments from doing all those things.

There will be a big function taking place on the 25th from the Heart Foundation South East London which I will be going to. It’s a big boisterous raise money again, to send, to buy equipment, medical equipment. Friends of the Heart Foundation centre got two ambulances out there already, plus a four-wheel drive. Four-wheel drive was a safe car, was the first one that we send, so I am busy. Now actually, I think I am looking to, I said to the Executive Committee last time we met, you know so you better look for a new chair, I think I need to be doing something else with my life. I started something and I haven't been able to complete it yet, I want to do it, that's my life story, which is how I am inspired, I want to do that.

The one thing I missed actually in regards to this, and this is important, from when I was a councillor and Mayor. The Homerton Station, overground station, it became electrified at the time in 1985 when I was Mayor and I was the one who opened that. Sir Trevor Brooking was with us at the time and he opened Woolwich at the time, and I opened Homerton. At Homerton there was a plaque that was placed there on the wall, station opened by Councillor Hanson, Mayor of Hackney blah, blah, blah. Some years ago they were doing some work and they removed the plaque and nobody seems to be able to find it.

Anyway, but before that happens, my son, when he used to work with the Department of Trade and Industry, he said to his mates, “well, my dad opened Homerton.” They say, “Oh, he didn’t.” He said, “well I have got proof” and they follow him, come down to the station to go and see the proof. He look on there and see and say “wow, it’s true, your dad opened Homerton Station.” I have been trying to find out where it is, the plaque and I did a lot of writing so far on that. I think one of the chief executives, I can’t remember, he said, “Mr. Hanson don't let it go” so we got to find it. Some young people met me out, and I say well, where is it? We want to see it because that's part of our history now and I can’t find it. I have got to try and see if I can get in touch with the Mayor of London, now to see if he can, get it put back, for us.

When my son said, “Dad I came down with a friend to show the plaque, and it wasn't there.” I said, “what do you mean it wasn’t there?” He said, “No it’s not there.” When I went they said they were putting up the new ticket barrier in there, and I don’t know what they have done with it, but it’s not there which hurts me, it hurts me badly. Everybody is saying Mr Hanson you must get it done, let them put it back. I am going to try and see if I can get that put back, so yeah.


Q. You were born in Jamaica. Were you affected by the changes to British citizenship that happened in the 1980s? [2017.f_11:04]

KH. The what? Sorry.


Q. There was a change in the definition of British citizenship in the 1980s. [2017.f_11:10]

KH. Yeah the citizenship, it’s a good one. When we became independent, Jamaica became independent. We, Jamaicans are able to have dual nationality. When we came over, unfortunately a lot of people although they were living here all the time, they didn't take it out. I used to go around and tell people, do it, take out the dual nationality. My wife’s cousin was one of those, Lee, and he said, “No I am not taking it out. When I leave here, I am not coming back” I said, sure and when he leave he didn't come back, although he want to come back, but he couldn't come back, after many years he didn’t have it.

Many people, and actually, in fact, the time when I take mine and my wife, we didn't have to pay for it. We fill up the form and it’s sent around, we didn't have to pay for it. But as the year goes by, people now are going to have to pay for it.

[2017.g_00:00] My cousin who is passed away now and I said to her, why don’t you take it out? She said, “I can’t be bothered.” I said, take it out, and she go to the church up in Tottenham and I said, when you go back, tell your pastor that I said he must talk to his congregation and let those Jamaicans who are in there to take out their dual nationality, and she said she’ll mention it to the pastor. One day the pastor said, “I am going to have a gathering, anybody want to come, come.” She said, “Ken,”, “When I got there the queue was long. Everybody was coming up to go and get it.” At that time though, they had to pay for it. It was about 80 pounds, something around that region. I had to pay for it, and there was many people that didn’t do it, although even today, there are some people and they still don’t do it.

So, they can go on holiday but when they come back, if they go overseas for a certain time, they can’t come back because they didn’t have the dual nationality, and it is bad. So, a lot of people suffer from it, only because of their own negligence, I would say, that they didn’t do it. But Jamaica got independent, 1962, August of 1962, and every year, we had a function for that to celebrate, over here, and you can imagine with Jamaican independence going on over there. It’s big over there. So, usually, we have independence do over here. This year, we have a joint one with the High Commissioner’s office. All the main community groups over here with High Commissioner say, can we put things together and make it one big thing, for the 55 years? So, a lot of the groups, the associations and other big groups, Nurses Association, et cetera, et cetera, and Teachers Association, trying to get with the High Commissioner’s office. So, it is in Kensington, in one of those hotels. So, it was big.

So, every year, we do celebrate the independence of Jamaica over here.


Q. Going back a little bit, you mentioned that before you got involved in local politics, there were bad things had been happening and some people were being badly treated. Would you mind just sort of explaining that a little bit? [2017.f_02:33]

KH. Housing is one of them. We had a… people who were black and Native people were given… in actual fact, as I mentioned in the talk I did the other day, there was time going by, and I’m not going to make any excuse for this, because it was true, there was no such thing as ethnic group, it must be either black or white. Black, and it wasn’t saying black nation or whatever it is, black, what you describe as black people, and at that time in England, a lot of us really suffered from that. Discrimination took place, very, very badly, and some of us are able to tackle it. Some keep it under … but it was happening and more so in housing.

When I became a councillor, it was before I become a councillor actually, because I used to hear the stories when people come to the surgery, my surgery, and complain about the condition of housing, and we said we better look into this. And I remember, the London Tenants Organisation at that time, we had the GLC [Greater London authority] then, London Tenants Organisation, which was based in Bethnal Green, and one day I got a call, saying, “Ken, there is something happening in the GLC, and we’d like you to go to be the tenant’s representative, of the tenants in London,” which was about 100,000 at the time. I said, me? They said, “Yes, Ken. You can talk. You can go and talk about the tenants in the GLC,” because we were living in GLC boroughs then, GLC housing then.

And so, this big meeting took place down there, crowded, big crowd. I think I used to have butterflies when I first started to do public speaking, butterflies, but when I went to county hall, Ken [Livingston] was representative of the London tenants, he’s come to say something, and I really gave them a bit of my tongue, I would say, in regards to GLC policies in housing. And I remember Horace Cutler was the tory person on the GLC at that time, and there were more than one of them. It seems as if they was snobby to tenants, really was, and I remember, I put my hand up to speak one day and they said, “You can’t speak,” and Ken said, “Yes, he can.” Ken Livingston, “Yes, he can,” and then I speak, but when I was asked to go that meeting and speak on behalf of tenants, I really had a go with them about the condition that tenants living in on the GLC estates, and especially black tenants, you know. It’s not right.

And in actual fact, on the Kingsmead Estate, where I was the Tenants Association secretary, we took the GLC to court. I can’t remember which year, but we took the GLC to court because of the refuse situation. You live upstairs, on the fourth, fifth floors, and the chute that they have, which I understand was just for the coal in the olden days, and it wasn’t taking the rubbish down to the bottom good. So, we complain and we complain, and we complain, and they weren’t doing anything. And the first thing that we did before we take them to court, I get in touch with the tenants on the estate and so we’re going to have a big march, down to Homer Road, with our black bags full of rubbish, and we did, and the Hackney Gazette was with us, and almost every tenant on that march have a black bag, full of rubbish. And we got on to Homer Road, and we dump it right on the doorsteps of them. I said, you better do something now.

And still, they weren’t hesitating, so we went to court. We went to court and I had a feeling that the court realized what we were doing was right. I don’t think the court wanted to say to the authority, the tenants beat you in this case. What the court said was, all right, it’s a very tricky matter. You two must go and sort it out. So, we went back and the GLC said all right, we are going to start to make bigger chutes, and the first was in Kingsmead House. I said, apart from that, we want to see the place developed better, and years after they made modifications on the estates. I forgot what year, but yeah, it was a big struggle there at the time for the estate tenants.

So, I wanted to stay as a champion for the tenants. I would always fight for the tenants at the time. So, those were some of the things that took place there.


Q. Is there anything else that you want to say? [2017.f_08:07]
KH. There probably is something else that I left out that I probably want to remember. When I leave here, it’ll all come back again. That’s what always happen. No, I don’t think so. If you think there is something else. I know my son worked here a lot, Valentine. Yes, this is one of the things I wanted to say.

In regards to London, and as a member of this community, I don’t think a lot of …good portrayal has been placed on black youngsters. I say this to those in the media, [inaudible], whatever it is, and I know Valentine, my son, we noticed that there is a lot of black actors in England, but they haven’t been given the chance to move forward, and I even saw them leaving and go to America, they find out they did better. And I think Britain is losing some of their good men and women who are actors, and I would love to see something done about that. Not because Valentine is my son, but I’ve been to places where they perform and without me saying to people that’s my son, people are saying, “Wow, that guy is great”, you know. And I remember when he was training and I went to sit in once, and my wife and I were sitting in the back, and there’s this man sitting me behind me, and he said, “Wow, that guy is going places.” And I said, which one is that? He said, “That one, that one.” I said, right away, that’s my son. He said, “what?” I said, yeah, I could see him going places.

And apart from him, there is others that I know, and he knows as well, you know, given the opportunity, right opportunity, they could do it, but others will leave from here. They have to go to America to make themselves, to make it there, you know. I was hoping that this country use the talents that they have in regards to black actors and ethnic actors in what they are doing. And I use black and ethnic. If you remember earlier on, I was saying, there was no such thing as black and ethnic. Them days was black and white. All right, and in the case of housing and people like that, there was three things that used to happen, when you looked for housing. A black person look for housing, and I think you probably hear this so many times, it was no blacks, no Irish, no dogs. Maybe that’s why some of those Irish and I get on so well. You know, I get on with everybody, but at them days, these were the things and it’s very tough.

That’s not completely gone through the window, but it’s mostly gone through the window now, and I’m glad that things are changing. Yes, I say they don’t do anything about it several, several time. Why is it that black actors and black actresses in this country, you know, not getting the portrait that they should get? I’m knocking the drum not only for my son, I’m knocking the drum for all the black actors, [2017.f_08:07] who can make it, can do good in this country. Some of them have to leave and go to America, before they are able to pick up something on it. It can happen here, in this talented place, especially Hackney, here is a multi-talented place. I’ll tell you, if you want to get talent, come to Hackney. It’s here, in abundance, it is. Yeah.